Klarna’s growth story with Head of Nordics Björn Bryngelson

3 takeaways from the conversation with Björn Bryngelson

1. Growth comes from bold bets and adaptation

Klarna’s journey shows the power of making big moves, whether it was launching the Klarna app, rebranding with boldness, or expanding into the US. Each decision came with risks, but adapting products and strategy to local consumer behavior (like introducing “Pay in 4” in the US) was critical for global success.

2. Culture drives speed and innovation

Despite being a large company, Klarna operates with a startup mindset: flat, inclusive, and willing to experiment. Leaders encourage employees to try new things, fail fast, and iterate. This culture has allowed Klarna to move quickly in a regulated industry and stay ahead of competitors.

3. AI is changing everything

Klarna embraced AI early through its partnership with OpenAI, and today it touches almost every part of the business. From powering customer service (handling two-thirds of requests) to cutting internal work times from days to minutes, AI has become a core advantage. For new employees, it’s even a “digital mentor” that helps them learn faster.

Watch the episode:

Podcast transcript

Josua: You know, well first of all, welcome, welcome to the show. Thanks for taking the time. Great to be here. Uh, you’ve been at Klarna for over 10 years now, [00:00:15] and when you joined it was a very different company. I think today you can make the case at Klarna is the second.

Josua: Successful startup from the Nordics after Spotify, which is like this massive can, most soluble company in Sweden. Yeah. So you, you still gotta wait, uh, [00:00:30] a bit of, um, they got a little bit of a headstart there, but, uh, when you joined, what was, what was your kind of like, your expectations Was Klarna doing really well at the time?

Josua: Did you have sort of the, the [00:00:45] expectation that this could be something really, really big or, or what drew you to Klarna back 10 years ago?

Björn: Yeah. Um, so I joined back in, um, 2015. So that means that I’ve been part of half of Klarna journey. [00:01:00] The company had already existed for 10 years, uh, when I joined, started back in 2005.

Björn: I think the first transaction was like April six at 1130 something, uh, with the store retailer, [00:01:15] pocket shopping. Um, and obviously a lot has happened since. But, uh, when I joined back then, I think we were around six, 700 people. Uh, Klarna was very successful here in the Nordics, had launched uh, in markets [00:01:30] like Germany, Austria, uh, Netherlands.

Björn: We’re just making its way to the UK market and also, uh, the us. So it was a very exciting time to join that company because, um, I was recruited by a, [00:01:45] a very, uh, you know, good friend of mine who said like, we’re doing these great things here. You should really look into what we’re doing. You like sales?

Björn: We’ve seen big success of, um, smoothing commerce here in the Nordics. Now we’re gonna take that [00:02:00] global. So that was kind of like the entry point for me. Um, and, um, I think joining was also, it was very clear when I joined that like, uh, the ambitions were a lot higher than just, uh, you know, keeping [00:02:15] business assets, uh, over here.

Björn: Um, and I think the, the goal then was very clear, and I think it’s the same goal as when the company started, like smoothing commerce, making commerce a lot smoother. But then that has looked a lot different throughout the different years of [00:02:30] the company, right? So when Klarna started, it was 2005, you basically enabled consumers to get the goods first without having to part from any money, right?

Björn: So, um, that was a really. [00:02:45] Safe and secure way to shop online back in 2005 where you hadn’t seen the brand you were shopping from, like you didn’t even know if it would work technically. It was so early in the days of e-commerce. And at the same time, we also took the risk from the [00:03:00] retailer. So that was kind of like smoothing commerce, making things very easy.

Björn: Uh, when I joined, it was more in the face of like reducing friction at checkout. Like how can we make this a one click buy experience, uh, remove all of this. Entering [00:03:15] card details, uh, you know, civil codes and like all of this, um, step up flows and verification flows. How can we remove as much as possible, uh, uh, about that?

Björn: And um, um, today those [00:03:30] things are more like basics or hygiene factors, and it has become so much more. Right? Uh, so I would say since I started in like 2015, there’s been so many shifts already. Everything from Klarna becoming a very global company to [00:03:45] Klarna launching its consumer facing app, which is used by millions and millions of consumers every day.

Björn: To us launching a new standard in the credit market, consumer fair, consumer offering. And obviously the biggest shift [00:04:00] of them all, which over the past year has been the introduction of ai. Right. So it’s been a very exciting journey and nothing looks the same as, as back then, but like all dialed back up to this like smoothing commerce.

Björn: Right.

Josua: I, I actually think that’s [00:04:15] really fascinating is that, like you said, there’s been this one consistent. Goal, overarching goal, and then the company’s strategy and focus has shifted depending on where the bottleneck is at the moment.

Björn: Yeah, exactly.

Josua: Uh, [00:04:30]

Björn: so what do you think? Yeah, go ahead. No, it is exactly that, but it’s also like staying, being able to, being very agile in a company and like really listening to the consumers, like the consumer behavior is dictating, right?

Björn: So what do they actually want and how can you solve this [00:04:45] based on the conditions at hand? And uh, those have looked very different. As you know, technology has evolved over time.

Josua: What’s the biggest been, the biggest, like concrete changes in consumer consumer behavior as it relates to your business? And are there big differences in [00:05:00] the different markets you’re in?

Josua: From Nordics to rest of Europe to the us?

Björn: Yeah. I think like, um, consumer behavior will always be, be looking for like the simplest way to get things done. I think us who are in this industry like. [00:05:15] Payments, you know, we think it’s really interesting and really fun and, uh, you know, wants to, you know, we want to geek out and learn everything about it.

Björn: People who are not in the payments industry, you know, it’s, uh, it’s not some, something you talk about over the [00:05:30] dinner table or like, how did you pay that transaction today? They just wanna get it done. Um, and, but I don’t think you should ever like, underestimate the consumer behavior, right? Because it would always be looking for that simplest way to get things done.

Björn: So [00:05:45] if you have a card terminal, like, why would I put a card in the terminal? When I can tap it on the side, that’s much easier. And why would I tap a card on the side if I can, you know, uh, use, um, uh, my iPhone and tap that one instead? Why would I then pull up my card and [00:06:00] then why would I pull up my iPhone if I have my iWatch and I can tap that instead?

Björn: And so it goes, right. And what will the next step be? So I think, um, uh, you know, it comes down to like shopping behavior and so on, right? [00:06:15]

Josua: So what do you think is gonna be the next, what are the kind of the big critical bottlenecks that need to be solved to take e-commerce penetration, which I think in Sweden, maybe at like 20% or something like that, which is very high, like on global standards.

Josua: But [00:06:30] do you think there are any major bottlenecks that need to be solved to really unlock even to make e-commerce, uh, or commerce even smoother?

Björn: I think we’re, we’re working on that as we speak every single day. Um, one could [00:06:45] argue that like, you know, obviously AI being introduced to, and we, we use it as every, like, it’s part of our everyday work.

Björn: It’s very ingrained in our, uh, company culture nowadays. And very encouraged also from our leadership who’s been super good at motivating [00:07:00] everyone and embracing it and, uh, you know, using it as part of your everyday work, but. There will also be like regulatory changes on that space. Like I think it’s important to, um, from a regulatory perspective, not to put like this red tape that will [00:07:15] hinder um, you know, us and other companies and, and Europe in general if you look compare Europe to like US or other markets where regulation isn’t as strict.

Björn: I mean, uh, it’s important to. Um, let the market mature, uh, [00:07:30] in all of this and, and, uh, not put too much red, but that hinders, uh, innovation and, uh, development.

Josua: Definitely Wanna get back to the Ai ai aspect, which you’ve been very, uh, and, and your CEO have been very [00:07:45] public in, in how you’re adapting that very aggressively.

Josua: Um. Um, but you know, kind of during your time at car, you’ve had a lot of different roles working in commercial, commercial side, and you’ve seen, seen the company evolve and grow massively in all by all metrics. [00:08:00] Um, anything that you’ve kind of noticed or, or now that you look back on, like any type strategies, any decisions?

Josua: I’m thinking especially as it relates to the kind of commercial go to market side of things. Any decisions or strategies that was like [00:08:15] critical. In achievement, this, this massive growth that you’ve had over the last 10 and 20 years?

Björn: Yeah, uh, that’s a great question. I think, um, um, the introduction of the Klarna app was a really big thing for us.

Björn: [00:08:30] Uh, when it was launched in 20 18, 20 19, uh, it, uh, kind of sold it. It took like, uh, the commerce to next level. It basically made customers, uh, uh, [00:08:45] being able to access this entirely enriched post-purchase experience. So like from the consumer perspective, like it’s just excellent that I can go in, I can see an image of the product that I bought, I can get all the details on how I pay this.

Björn: I can [00:09:00] even click the, the image and go back and buy the same product again. Like consumers were just used to. Uh, you know, seeing like a statement where it said, you know, Nike a hundred dollars, uh, that’s it. But at the same time, there’s just this [00:09:15] huge engagement, engagement in, uh, banking apps in general.

Björn: Like, just think about it yourself. How many times do you go in your bank app? It’s, I guess it’s a couple of times per day. You look at your outstanding balance or whatever it can be, and we just realized that like, hey, a lot [00:09:30] of eyeballs, a lot of traction, a lot of engagement. Like, why don’t we create something that’s.

Björn: A lot nicer for the consumer to actually look at and use. And then when we launched that, it basically just, it went [00:09:45] extremely fast. And also in, when talking about like growth strategy in the us it’s been like a great customer acquisition tool because in a market where we didn’t have all the retailers, like here in the Nordic, we have like 40% of all e-commerce in the [00:10:00] US we, you know.

Björn: Took some time to get there. Now we are, obviously, we work with a big chunk of the top 100 retailers in the market and so on, but back then many, the first encounter with Klarna was like the Klarna app where you could basically [00:10:15] use it to shop and transact anywhere, even though we weren’t integrated. So it played a big part in acquiring new customers and getting acquainted with Klarna and all the benefits that we could provide.

Björn: Um, and as time has, you know, evolved, we’ve kept adding nice [00:10:30] features for consumers, right? So we have the cash back program now used by millions of shoppers, only launched last year. You know, we can measure your CO2 footprint, you can track your parcels. Like there’s so much features in there that we have just kept giving consumers [00:10:45] a resistance to come back to that app and for.

Björn: For retailers, it also played a great part that we were able to drive a lot of customers back to them. So what they saw with Klarna was like, they’re not just getting the same customer coming back to their site over [00:11:00] and over again. They’re getting actually net new customers that we attract through, uh, this experience.

Björn: Right? So, um, it was kind of a win-win. So that was probably one of the bigger growth drivers. Right? And then if you look at [00:11:15] more like from a. Nordic standpoint and, and big things that have happened over the, the past year or so, I may have seen that we di divested the Klarna checkout product. Um, [00:11:30] so the, the Klarna checkout product was a fantastic product.

Björn: When we launched it here in the Nordics, it came with this unique user experience, a one click buy, pre-filled, everything. Uh, you know, it was almost at the point where people were like, oh, did I actually [00:11:45] make a purchase because it was so frictionless. And no one else had that when that product was launched here in the, in the Nordics in 2012, I believe.

Björn: Um, so it quickly became a very popular feature in particular in this Nordic [00:12:00] markets, uh, you know, around 20,000 retailers. But if you look at Klarna globally on our growth strategy, we are around 700,000 retailers today. Um, where. Those 20,000 in relation to those [00:12:15] 700,000 is, you know, doesn’t seem fairly big.

Björn: So what we realized is that Klarna started as a payment option, either directly integrated or distributed through platforms and our global growth strategy, taking us to those 700,000 retailers and, and [00:12:30] probably more in the future, right? That is mainly driven by distribution partnerships. So being a payment option within other checkouts, even to the point where we’re today distributed through.

Björn: Wallets like, uh, you know, Google Pay. [00:12:45] So, um, for us then competing with all of these distribution partners in one part of the world, which was the Nordic, that didn’t make sense. Um, and also what we realized was like as a payment option, operating our own checkouts, [00:13:00] some other payment options may not want to be part of that checkup because we are a payment option operating it.

Björn: They don’t want to share consumer’s debt and so on. So we weren’t given the best to the retailers either. So. Uh, we have really, like the divestment has really like, [00:13:15] honed in on like, this is how we’re gonna grow moving forward. It is through the distribution partners so clear, uh, for us right now. And I think that gives us like a, an unstoppable force.

Björn: Just be part of every single checkout, reaching every single consumer, all [00:13:30] different locations where they shop at. Um, so yeah.

Josua: Got it. Okay. So Custom, which is now the, the new name of the K Clarine checkout is then completely separate from Klarna. Yeah. And just like, and basically and [00:13:45] any other distribution partner for you guys?

Björn: Yeah, exactly. They’re just like a Stripe add and uh, uh, you know, Shopify, you name it.

Josua: Okay. Um, you mentioned the United States, which is I think the single biggest market for Klarna at the moment, and. [00:14:00] It’s, I, I very uncommon for a Nordic or European company to succeed that massively in the us. So can you talk a little bit about that?

Josua: Like, when did you guys launch in the us what was the strategy? How has that changed over, uh, over [00:14:15] the years?

Björn: Um, so the US, I mean, um, I think I mentioned we, we launched it, you know, we, we entered into the US market in 20 14, 20 15, I think just like small scale, no big commercial launch. [00:14:30] Um, and today it’s, uh, our biggest market by volume, which is pretty cool.

Björn: Even in being, in being. So I think we just released our, uh, Q1 25 report. We we’re seeing like a 33%. Year over year growth. [00:14:45] Um, you know, so it’s, it’s, uh, pretty massive and pretty important for us. So I wouldn’t say it was like super easy for us to go in into that market. Uh, as you’re referring to, when we started there, we actually deployed the Klarna checkout as a product.

Björn: Um, [00:15:00] uh, a bit ambitious coming into like a, you know, pretty big market. There’s a lot of competition and, um, the checkout was also built a lot on the pay, uh, buy now pay in 30 days product, like the in open invoice product, [00:15:15] uh, which was super big here in, in Europe, like in Nordic’s, you know, uh, the most preferred payment option.

Björn: Uh, in markets like Germany’s, also the, one of the most preferred payment options, but in the US. Didn’t really exist. Um, it was almost [00:15:30] like consumers wondered why would they not enter their card details upfront? Why would they get the goods first and then enter card details and pay. So we had to like iterate it back and forth.

Björn: And we actually realized that if we ask consumers [00:15:45] upfront about their card details, um. It actually, it brings better conversion because that’s the consumer behavior in the market. Uh, so we started doing that, but then, um, I think we, we came to realize that like we need to adapt the product even further.

Björn: And [00:16:00] then we launched, uh, what we call pay in four, which is four interest free, uh, installments, paid biweekly, also card backed. It’s automatically the doctor that follows the salary cycle. And that’s where we really hit it. Hit it off with the, with the product. [00:16:15] Um. So that’s like from the product perspective and um, from a, uh, like team’s perspective, there were a lot of Klarna, Swedes in the US in the beginning, uh, which made total sense.

Björn: Like we brought the Klarna DNA to the market [00:16:30] and all of the knowledge there. But I think we also, like, from an organizational perspective, at some point we realized like, we need to have a lot more US people talking to, uh, US merchants and so on. And we launched this like global. Uh, [00:16:45] global and local partnership strategy where we operate today with the, uh, partner success teams that work really closely with the merchants and that by closely, I mean they should be like within a two hour reach from the, the merchant partners that we [00:17:00] work with.

Björn: So now we have like local teams that are very close and can work a lot more closer with the, the partners that we have, uh, over there. So that was also a big one. Um, and lastly, I think like also of course, like with any business, like when you, [00:17:15] um, sign a partnership with the brands like Macy’s in the us, uh, Etsy, like, uh, Nike Builder, most recently we announced Walmart.

Björn: Uh, you know, that obviously brings [00:17:30] also a, a hygiene factor to you as a provider, uh, and, uh, and, uh, makes, you know. Makes it a lot easier to, to bring any other conversation to the table

Josua: for sure. I, I think there’s, you kind of touched upon so many interesting things about, [00:17:45] one being like patients, the fact that it’s like 10 years in the making now.

Josua: Um, the second thing is kind of bringing that, like the thing that made you successful, which is the sw arguably a lot, a lot of Swedish DNA in Klarna, but also then adjusting it to the, the facts on the ground, [00:18:00] you know? The way Americans are used. I’m guessing like the four four is like more or less standard in the us um, not just for you guys, but maybe for the competitors.

Josua: That’s kind of like, like the open invoice in in, in the Nordics. Yeah.

Björn: There, there are like several other providers [00:18:15] offering that exact same payment option, but then it’s everything you do around it. Right. I would say for us it’s like, it’s a big chunk of our, our business. There, there are other providers that are more heavy on like the.

Björn: Traditional financing, you pay something over, you know, three years or [00:18:30] four years and you pay an interest to that. Like this was interest free, uh, extremely consumer friendly, which kind of ties a lot into our overall offering and how we’ve operated, uh, also here in the Nordics for the past, uh, you know, six, seven years, where we’ve [00:18:45] look across our offering, make sure that it’s the most consumer friendly one because what we see is just that brings trust and loyalty and returning users.

Josua: Okay. Got it. Um, one thing I wanted to ask about was the brand, [00:19:00] ’cause Klarna, I, I, I, I forget when did you do the, the rebranding? Was that like 2018? 19,

Björn: 20, yeah. 18. 19 I 18. I think we went smooth. Yeah.

Josua: That, that was bold. That was a bold kind of, [00:19:15] and, and very. Very interesting. So what was kind of like the insights that led you to make the, the branding decisions and, you know, what role did the US being a very big market, potential market play in that?

Josua: And what [00:19:30] role did, if any, did kind of like the Swedish DNA of Klarna play in, in, in the brand and how you thought about kind of positioning yourselves?

Björn: Yeah. Um, I think the rebranding obviously was, uh, a big. Big part of [00:19:45] identifying who we actually were. Like we were launched as like a company that was like blue.

Björn: We just looked at this is how all the other banks are doing, and we do the same. And like we try to do it a bit more frictionless, a bit more digital. But then it came down to like, this isn’t really us. [00:20:00] We, we need to be speaking to our consumers in a way that they actually understand. Uh, so looking at like the smooth payments and how we launched all of that was like.

Björn: We looked at how does the industry look today? And it is actually like an industry [00:20:15] that has, uh, to a great extent, has lost touch with its core user. Like, yeah, there’s a lot of these fine prints you see, you know, middle-aged men in, in blue suits, in marble offices that doesn’t really necess necessarily [00:20:30] like relate to, uh, a consumer of today.

Björn: Um, so we needed to find a way where we speak to consumers in their language and, you know, earn their trust in that way, and then make sure that we [00:20:45] live up to that trust and promise and brand that we build. So the brand pillars that we basically work towards is like, we need to help consumers save money.

Björn: Um, we need to cons, consume, help consumers, uh, save time, and we need to let them be in [00:21:00] control, like pay when they, when they want to pay, uh, if it’s now directly or if it’s over time or whatever it may be. Um, so I think how we got there was basically we launched this smooth payments and we did it together with [00:21:15] ambassadors that we felt resonate a bit more with the shoppers of today.

Björn: So. We worked with Snoop Dogg. He sent his name to Smooth Dog for a period of time when we launched in the us. Uh, and since then, you know, we’ve done all of this. We worked with lady like a rocky [00:21:30] latest, almost like with Sha O’Neill, when we launched the cashback program. He sent his name to Shaquille Ode.

Björn: And, you know, uh, it, it, it, it feels quite quirky and, and, you know, but, uh, it, it really resonates. Like it really works. And if you go in and [00:21:45] see the whole experience, like as a new consumer, see that brand. I go in and I experience the app, you get kind of the same feeling, uh, across it, right? You don’t have to be blue and boring and uh, you know, disconnected to offer a very safe, [00:22:00] secure, and stable and a good financial product.

Josua: Yeah, that seems to make a lot of sense. Just out of curiosity, like what is, uh, what is your kind of like brand awareness level in the us? Like, are [00:22:15] you, is Klarna becoming kind of a household brand? For, for consumers in, in those really big markets.

Björn: Yeah, I would say that’s funny story. Like when we were in the early days, it was hard to get someone to even pronounce Klarna.

Björn: Like [00:22:30] Klarna. It’s, it’s a hard word to pronounce if you are, um, an English speaking person. But, um, uh, nowadays it’s, it’s, I would say it is household, like we are the top provider, uh, within. BMPL and, and much more. Uh, so [00:22:45] a very recognized brand. Um, and that’s pretty cool. Like I just, when I spent time there and, and, and did a lot of, you know, merchant mill things and flew around in the US I could even like, see people on flights using Klarna app, you know, right next to [00:23:00] me.

Björn: And that was pretty cool. Um, but I mean, we have somewhere, there’s always somewhere to go, right? I think we have, you know. More than 20 million active users, uh, active in the transact list once over the past year. Um, [00:23:15] and, um, you know, there’s quite a few more to work with. Uh, and then BPL is still, you know, a fairly small chunk of the, the payments, uh, cake over there.

Björn: So, uh, you know, if you look at Sweden where we have 96% brand awareness, we [00:23:30] have, we have somewhere to go still. So that’s great and, and means a lot of opportunity.

Josua: Yeah. Speaking of those markets like Sweden, obviously, I mean, Sweden is like the, given that that it’s your home market, but in those markets where you are really dominating, um, what’s, [00:23:45] and, and given that you’re, you know, the head of Nordic, so that’s, that’s your, your main responsibility, like, what’s the strategy there?

Josua: I mean, I’m thinking, you know, in the US there’s this huge, huge market partner is the leading, becoming a household name, but Clear Lake, there’s, there’s tons of growth potential, but how do you approach that in, in the [00:24:00] Nordics? Like what’s the, what’s the strategy there?

Björn: Yeah, I think, uh, if we look at it from a consumer point of view, uh, a key thing and a key topic that we, uh, work a lot with is to have a really, uh, sustainable and fair, [00:24:15] uh, consumer offering.

Björn: And by that meaning we operate in a very regulated space, which is, uh, consumer credit. And, um, uh, still the Nordics is pretty far behind in terms of how to regulate and make sure that [00:24:30] consumers end up with a. Fair offering. So we call it like pink standards, uh, which means that we, we did the re haul of all of our offerings because we were doing the same as everyone else.

Björn: Um, but then we realized like, is this really giving you happy and returning customers, uh, also [00:24:45] long term and in compliance with future regulation where that’s having. So we are focusing a lot on, um, you know, um. Making sure that the customer gets an offering that is fair. Uh, and we did things like we doubled the repayment time [00:25:00] on the open invoice product from 14 to 30 days, uh, without any, any fees or interest for the consumer.

Björn: We took away these revolving credits where consumers just pay their installments and push the balance over time and [00:25:15] continue to pay interest on top of that. So we remove that. We only have closed end loans. Um. We, uh, did things like we put a cap on the a PR, so not only like on the interest, meaning we put a cap also on like the fixed [00:25:30] fees.

Björn: So altogether a consumer shouldn’t pay more than this. We actually removed all of this, like start fees, uh, monthly fees. That doesn’t really make sense, right. At some point someone said it’s gonna cost you 30 [00:25:45] euros to. Start issue alone. And that’s, today it’s fully ultimate, doesn’t cost 30 euro. It’s just bogus.

Björn: Uh, so, and it’s, you know, those kind of tricks that has been going on for so long that consumers don’t really understand what they’re getting themselves into and [00:26:00] ultimately end up paying. Uh, way too much, uh, for, uh, getting access to some type of credit. So in doing so, we have seen that the preference numbers for Klarna has just, uh, they’ve just eclipsed what any other provider can, [00:26:15] can offer in this market.

Björn: So up to, I think we have up to 34 times higher preference than, uh, other providers, uh, or credit online credit in these markets. So it’s been a big thing and in turn, obviously you see happy returning customers, higher conversion [00:26:30] rates, and that benefits the merchants even though we sacrifice some of the consumer revenues that we could obtain in doing so.

Björn: So that’s, um, that’s been a key differentiator for us in, in markets like the Nordics. And then obviously on the product [00:26:45] side, I would just like download the cloud app and compare it to anything else that’s out there. You know, AI powered, we build these new nice features, make life really easy for, for consumers, but it also means that we can bring merchants, all of the [00:27:00] benefits in new products that we also launch on a global scale.

Björn: We learn something from the US and we take it here and vice versa. Right. So you’ll see a lot of product developments and nice features that no one else would be able to offer today.

Josua: Got it. So essential. I mean, everything goes [00:27:15] back to kinda the smoothing. eCommerce, like on one hand, increasing trust and transparency.

Josua: That obviously ties into what you mentioned about brand and then on the other hand, just improving the customer experience with new features, AI and and so on. Yeah, [00:27:30] exactly. That’s pretty, um, it’s pretty simple and it works. Seems to be working. Sounds Sounds simple. Sounds simple. Yeah. Takes a bit more to, um, one thing that, that seems, that one thing that kind of strikes me as we’ve been talking about is [00:27:45] that, um, it seemed that.

Josua: Klar has been able to make a lot of big bets, um, throughout your history. Um, AI being one of them, but many others before that launching in the US and investing heavily there and, you know, launching the app and divesting when it’s not [00:28:00] part of the, the key focus. So how are you able to do that, given that you are a big, very organization, regulated space, very global.

Josua: How, how big of a role does being founder led, you know, the Sebastian [00:28:15] CEO, being the founder of the, the company. H what role does that play and and how does that look in your, kind of, in your organization, your everyday life? Are you able to like to move very quickly and make these really big direction changes if needed?

Björn: Yeah. I, [00:28:30] I, I think we, we are a pretty flat organization, like, um, and it’s a very inclusive organization in a way that where, like, just as an example, like if. They don’t sit in a hidden room and like [00:28:45] talk about things and then all of a sudden it comes like, here’s what you should do. They actually embrace and welcome people to see how they work.

Björn: Um, you know, you can get called into many things and then, you know, our, you know, CEO shares his screen and [00:29:00] like, this is how I thought about it. I tried this. Look at the experience. What can we fix here? So like, I think that culture has really enabled everyone to feel that they have. Ability to think of smart things and put it forward.

Björn: Right. [00:29:15] Um, obviously being in a, in a regulated space, like we have all of these processes that any other bank has, but I think we’re, we’re pretty more open to making fast decisions rather than just sit them, look at something and then, you know, analyze it and [00:29:30] then pause it and then, you know, it’s, it’s about testing and it, it’s okay to fail.

Björn: It’s okay to fail if you build up your thesis and think that this is a great thing and then for some reason it doesn’t really work out, you fail, but then you iterate [00:29:45] again and you try again and you know, come back stronger. Um, it’s also about being able to be really accountable for your, even for your failures, like equally as you get.

Björn: Path on the shoulder when you do something that’s really good, [00:30:00] like you should also be accountable for, for when you know things haven’t gone really well, because otherwise you will never learn, right? Uh, and make things better. So I think that type of culture has been super important in how we, uh, are able to pivot when we need, um, [00:30:15] and so on.

Björn: Interesting.

Josua: I mean, you’ve been exposed to, you know, the business slash startup cultures of the US I’m guessing many other European countries and you know, the Nordic, Sweden kind Swedish kind of culture very well. Do you think there’s any, you may have already [00:30:30] answered this in your previous answer, but do you think there’s any things that where we, by virtue of the, the Nordic kind of culture have a real strong competitive advantage when it comes to building startups?

Björn: I think, I think we do. Uh, [00:30:45] you know, there’s no coincidence that there’s so many fantastic companies coming out of this region. Like we were super early, you know, with the internet, which gave us a huge benefit that like everyone was connected all of a sudden and we started producing really smart things, uh, super early on.

Björn: [00:31:00] Right. Um, there’s also like this, uh, very. Nice community here where retailers are not just fierce competitors, but they share everything in between each other. Right. Um, whether it’s at conferences or forums and like people like to interact [00:31:15] with each other and share their experience, and I think that’s super valuable.

Björn: Um, so I think there’s, um, you know, that nature of things makes, uh, Nordics pretty unique and hopefully we won’t be stopped by too much regulation and so on moving forward to [00:31:30] keep innovating and keeping, you know, that competitiveness out there in the world.

Josua: It’s really fascinating to see with, with some of these AI startups.

Josua: It feels like Stockholm is the place outside, outside the US and maybe you. I don’t know exactly what’s [00:31:45] happening in China, probably a lot, but outside of like in the west, outside of the US Silicon Valley, Stockholm feels like the place where there’s just tons of these really fast growing, high quality startups coming up.

Josua: And like you said, it’s probably not a coincidence

Björn: for sure. Yeah, [00:32:00] I saw, was it like the COO VO shared something LinkedIn post yesterday, um, which is like of the density just here in Stockholm or like all of these great companies that are just, uh, you know. Two to [00:32:15] 500 meter walk from each other. Uh, I think that’s pretty cool.

Björn: Uh, it’s

Josua: inspiring to see, I’m guessing K clarinet has played a pretty big role in creating that ecosystem. Like people coming, going out of k clarinet to start companies or, or join other companies to, to help [00:32:30] them grow.

Björn: Yeah, you can see a lot of, um, ex Klarna who moved on and started also, uh, real interesting businesses.

Björn: So it’s, it’s cool to see that it’s kind of nurtures, uh, a lot of, uh, new talent and new innovative ideas for sure. And I, again, I think it boils [00:32:45] back to like the, the leadership here doing, uh, really good work in, you know, um, um, letting people, um, uh, think out loud and, and, and, you know, make sure that they, um.

Björn: Gets more things out there. [00:33:00] Um, that type of culture is, is, is, uh, really helping that

Josua: for sure. Okay. Let’s talk then about ai, because that’s, uh, to me it feels like Klarna is of, of the big companies. I mean, you’re still a startup, but, but like you [00:33:15] said, household name of, of kind of the big companies that I’ve read about that are at least publicly the way you’re talking about AI and how you’re adapting it internally, like you are at the, at the forefront of that.

Josua: So can you talk about a little bit like what that has been like in practice? You just [00:33:30] mentioned that, you know, AI has become part of kind of everyday life. There are klarna people are using it very, very, um, extensively, I’m guessing. So can you talk about what that’s been like at Klarna? The use of AI and Yeah.[00:33:45]

Josua: Yeah. How it’s changed how you work?

Björn: Yeah. I mean, um. I think when, when, when all of that, it’s, it’s mainly because like we were really early in, right? Like Sebastian flew over, met with, uh, Sam Altman and, um, just said that like, we want to partner [00:34:00] with you guys. And I think we were the first, uh, global FinTech that partner with OpenAI and got access to all of their great, uh, you know, uh, ideas and technology.

Björn: So that obviously has helped. But then again, like it’s about fostering that culture. Where basically [00:34:15] everyone needs to get super engaged and, uh, having leaders showing like, here are examples of what we can do. You know, it obviously sets the tone that you want to be part of it, and people actually want to create stuff on their own and, and be able to [00:34:30] showcase that.

Björn: Um. Internally, one would think that like, yeah, it’s only like I thought in beginners, this is only gonna be like something for engineers. They’re gonna code faster. And you know, that’s great. But then, you know, I’ve come to terms with like, that’s [00:34:45] something that’s entirely different today. Uh, uh, you know, 90% of our workforce use AI on a daily basis.

Björn: Uh, whether it’s our internal, uh, you know, chatbot tools to, you know. Whatever it may be. And then also being able to put things [00:35:00] out there in the market to consumers like the, uh, customer service chatbots, uh, which today handles two thirds of all of our incoming, uh, customer service requests. Uh, that’s pretty cool.

Björn: Always with a human behind, of course. Uh, 24 [00:35:15] 7, 3 6 5. You know, most common question is like agent, and then of course you get to speak to, uh, a human. But, um, seeing the results from that is, is pretty. Pretty cool. And also just, I just encourage people to try the experience. Like go [00:35:30] in there and see how it actually works.

Björn: It prompts you and it shows like, is it this product that you bought with this retailer? Or is it that product? And you can see an image, oh, it was that one that I returned and I need to ask a question about it. So it’s really intuitive and that’s super cool to see. [00:35:45]

Josua: What about, you know, using AI for like internal workflows and maybe especially in, in your team, like, uh, what, what, and, and maybe, you know, on a personal level like.

Josua: How has, how has AI changed the way you guys work?

Björn: [00:36:00] I think it’s, um, it’s become just a part of everyday life, right? So whether it’s, uh, you know, aggregating reports or how we document things, how we structure things so that we can get most output from it, [00:36:15] um, you know, it’s, um, uh. It’s just cool to see how it’s become just part of the everyday work.

Björn: Everything from your analyst to, you know, your commercial people, or if it’s the legal teams that can actually, you know, [00:36:30] some time ago it took, you know, they need to make an amendment to an agreement before we sent it out to a partner. You know, from today it takes 30 seconds. Uh, a lot this year, a lot faster.

Björn: Um, they build their own tools and, and the, you [00:36:45] know, same thing goes with the analyst. They can build out. It took like one day to build a business case. Now it’s extremely faster. You know, all of those types of use cases are, are covered. Uh, without going into too much detail. Uh, like it, it’s just a, a [00:37:00] game changer in the, in the time we spend.

Björn: Uh, and I think that’s the point, right? You don’t wanna. Wanted to take over like what humans think and interact and talk about, because that’s where the greatest ideas come. But you want to just remove the boring stuff that takes a lot of time [00:37:15] and time consuming, uh, but doesn’t really like, require anything else than someone to just compute it and, and give you the output immediately.

Josua: Yeah, it’s just yesterday I told a, a coworker of mine that I [00:37:30] don’t even know how I was doing work before ai. Like to now it feels almost like, it feels like I wasted so much time because now I’m using it every day to get answers to questions that would’ve taken me hours or minutes, or realistically I would not have spent the time to get [00:37:45] there.

Josua: And now we’re just automating things on a, in a way that’s just ridiculous.

Björn: It’s, yeah, and it’s also, you can to, like with new employees here at Klarna, like all of a sudden they have this digital assistant that they can just ask anything. Like, you remember back in the day [00:38:00] when you were new at the, you know, new workplace, you didn’t know the people.

Björn: Like, you felt kind of embarrassed asking too many questions. Like you can ask, you can hammer on, like you can ask 2000 question and we always get the the correct answer and so on. So like, there’s just these [00:38:15] really cool things that wasn’t possible in the past.

Josua: That’s one thing I’ve thought about is like when you put a, you know, an AI agent with access to all the internal company data and you give it to, to people.

Josua: I mean, new employees especially are just [00:38:30] massive. Massive. ’cause I mean, like you said, it’s, it’s kind of like you, even if you have a handler, someone mentoring you, you don’t wanna bother them. You know, ask them the same thing. Not all the time. Not all the time. Yeah. But the, yeah, the AI agents, they’re kind of, they’re, they’re patient.

Josua: [00:38:45] Exactly. Um, speaking of new employees, I think one thing that’s always really interesting to me, because it seems like success at the end of the day. You know, you have strategy, you have good products, um, great user experience and so on. But [00:39:00] it seems like at the end of the day, it’s always just really talented, hardworking people behind it.

Josua: So I’m always kind of curious how, how leaders think about identifying, recruiting and retaining talent. So how do you kind of approach that? As, [00:39:15] as you’ve, you’re building and managing your team.

Björn: Yeah, I think, um, we, um, it’s about here, it’s been a lot about fun people who are very, very, very curious people who want to look under the hood and not [00:39:30] just do the same thing over and over again.

Björn: Uh, people have a lot of, uh, you know, gr uh, and people who aren’t, uh, you know, afraid of change. Uh, we talk about like, you need to, uh. Appreciate [00:39:45] being kind of like in the stretch zone, uh, where, you know, will I actually be able to do this? Like, you need to push yourself and you need to find that type of profile that really appreciates working under those conditions, even though it’s not like some people just want stay, but I want to do the [00:40:00] same thing every day.

Björn: And, uh, you know, uh, that’s totally fine, but maybe this is not the, the place where, uh, where they would, would be able to do that. So, um, a lot of curiosity, A lot of. You know, getting into the details of things, um, [00:40:15] and also being open to do, um, you know, different tasks. Like you have so many hats here. Um, you can just spend a day looking at like, uh, like purchase flow recordings and trying to find, like identify this [00:40:30] is actually shoe and how can we, how can we address that in the smartest way and things like that.

Björn: Even if it’s like not your part of your everyday work. If you work as a business developer, probably it should be just. Call immersions and you know, doing, and we do that a lot, but [00:40:45] sometimes it’s just good to get a break and do other things, uh, which also helps you educate yourself a lot about the product.

Björn: So being that type of person who, who wants to see all angles of everything, I think that’s super important. Uh, at least from my perspective, been when we try to [00:41:00] recruit pit.

Josua: So safe to say that even though you’re a very big organization, you’re trying to function like a startup without these rigid. You know, functions and divided areas of responsibilities.

Josua: You’re trying to recruit people who would typically be [00:41:15] interested in going to startups where they can wear a lot of different hats where they can dive into different things that areas of business that kind of pique their interest. Absolutely,

Björn: absolutely. And you can also see a lot of people who started somewhere and then, you know, got into [00:41:30] some, some other competence and all of a sudden they’re in a, you know, completely different place than when they started.

Björn: But it’s like. Natural talent that has, has just grown with that person over some time, and then they ended up in a place where they didn’t expect from the beginning either, which is also [00:41:45] pretty

Josua: cool. So how do you kind of test for curiosity and grit? Is it kind of just a gut feel you get from talking to people and looking at their resume or?

Björn: Yeah, it’s, I think it comes a lot from just, uh, talking to people, but also, um, we obviously have this like [00:42:00] formal processes, the logic, like the logic tests and all of those things, right? But, um. It boils down to like both looking at experience from what has this person actually done, but you can’t really tell until you talk with that person and kind of challenge them on their thinking.

Björn: [00:42:15] And if they’re open to being challenged and you know, embrace that to some way and see that they can come out greater than then that’s a great thing.

Josua: Yeah, I had a podcast interview with the CEO of Walt and she said, I don’t know if it’s for every [00:42:30] single role, but for a lot of the roles, especially the, the more senior ones, like they will always do a project.

Josua: They will ask the, the recruitee to do a project. ’cause that’s the, the best way they found to really see what is it like to work with them, you know, how is their think, you know, how are they approaching problems? [00:42:45] How much work are they willing to put in, you know, the assignment. Um, do you guys do anything like that or is it, uh, kind of more, more standard?

Josua: Yeah, we have it,

Björn: it looks different across different, I can speak for all of the different, uh, competencies, uh, areas here, here, but like from a commercial [00:43:00] perspective, yes. Like it’s definitely part of like, we need to understand how they pitch and like, uh, how would they approach, uh, different, uh, you know, situation or, or business case and present that, that can obviously give you a good glimpse in how the, that person [00:43:15] resonates and.

Björn: Uh, also important to say like, what have they actually picked up before coming here? Like, are they going in blank to this, uh, conversation or like, just guessing or have they actually shown a curiosity and interest in understanding the product? Uh, which [00:43:30] is pretty cool. Sometimes you can even learn from like, Hey, this person thought about something that, you know, we didn’t even think about what’s a big benefit, uh, of our product.

Björn: So that’s pretty cool.

Josua: I’m guessing that’s a really good signal in a interview. Yeah, that’s a, that’s a good, exactly. So [00:43:45] anyone wanting to join Car I that, you know, this is some good, good advice. Um, I wanted to wrap up with asking kind of a few personal questions. Um, fir, first of all, is there anything to your mind that’s kind of [00:44:00] misunderstood or maybe.

Josua: Not known about Klarna anything. I mean, you talked to a lot of people, uh, most of them don’t work at Klarna. Um, most of them use Klarna, at least in Sweden. But is there anything that you kind of, like, this is one thing that people just continuously get wrong or they don’t understand about [00:44:15] us?

Björn: Uh, I think, uh, one could obviously look at things.

Björn: Uh, you know, we read a lot about, uh, over in Depthness and uh, you know, um, how is Billion Pal actually, is it good for consumers and so on, and like. [00:44:30] The most common misconception is like we at Klarna, like 98% of our consumers pay on time. 98% of our consumers pay on time. Wow. That’s a lot. Only 0.4% defaults.

Björn: And that’s global numbers. [00:44:45] If I look locally here in Sweden, it’s even a lot lower. Um, so. People don’t really get how good of an offering this is. Like if you compare to a credit card where consumers just keep revolve credit over a very long period of time. Like you look at the [00:45:00] US where the average outstanding credit debt is like $5,000 plus.

Björn: Um, and it is a big, big, big difference. This is an extremely good offering for the consumer. Uh, and that’s a very common misconception that like, it’s just someone points at [00:45:15] a, a provider like us and says that you are the, you know, um. Reason for, for, for, for all of this. And, uh, uh, I wouldn’t necessarily agree that I think we’re doing a great thing, um, in the consumer offering.

Björn: So that’s one thing where people typically [00:45:30] could have a misconception.

Josua: Yeah, that’s actually a really good point. ’cause it, it’s so easy to look at a company like Klarna, especially like a big company, successful company, and then assume that it’s, it’s it’s predator. Like the business model is predatory in some [00:45:45] way, whereas, you know, I’m.

Josua: The way you, you made a really good case that actually Klarna success and growth comes from providing, creating transparency and trust, um, and providing a really good user experience for, for millions of [00:46:00] customers and, um, hundreds of thousands of merchants. Yeah. Is that okay? Um, any beliefs that you’ve kind of long held beliefs about business or growth or leadership that you’ve kind of recently [00:46:15] changed your mind about?

Björn: I mean, again, I, I would just fall back to like AI and, uh, the introduction of that when it came, I, I didn’t think it was gonna be, uh, such a big change in how one could work, especially as I’m coming outta the, like, [00:46:30] the commercial vein, you know? Uh, I didn’t think it would see that much benefit from it. So I would say that has, uh, definitely been something that has, uh, blown my mind over the, over the past, uh, years.

Björn: I think,

Josua: uh, [00:46:45] there are a lot of people I, I believe agree. Yeah, agree. A

Björn: lot of, a lot

Josua: of people. Right. Uh, it’s, it’s crazy. I mean, yeah. Not even, I, I feel like not even the people who are at the forefront of this, the, the most technically sophisticated could, could have seen it. [00:47:00] Um, okay. Uh, final question. Do you have any kind of contrarian beliefs or anything that you know, most of your peers.

Josua: Your, your colleagues would disagree with, maybe related to business or payments or technology or whatever.

Björn: Um, [00:47:15] contrarian views that, what did you say that peers would disagree with? Yeah. Yeah. Any

Josua: kind of, anything

Björn: unconventional. I mean No, no, nothing. Nothing conventional about it. Um, I think sometimes like we get the question or like, yeah.

Björn: [00:47:30] Klarna just trying to, you know, take too much ownership of the customers. Like, you know, customer goes into Klarna app and they’re there, see other brands and like, yeah, what does Klar actually do with that customer? And so on. And I think that’s just, um, um, you know, [00:47:45] uh, what many partners of ours realize is that like as we become, uh, we read such critical mass.

Björn: In all of the, this markets in particular in the Nordics for like, you know, millions and millions, I think we have more than 11 million users in the Nordics. [00:48:00] We just this ecosystem that tries to help retailers get this one customer to a 1.2 customer or to a 1.3 customer, like helping merchants grow by letting them be exposed and share [00:48:15] their uh, products with more and more consumers that benefits.

Björn: All right, so even though. If you have a consumer that has shopped on your site, comes into the Clar app, yes, they may see other brands and go, uh, you know, and transact on that site, but you, at the same time, you’ll get three or [00:48:30] four new customers back. Uh, you know, so, um, it’s not about, uh, controlling that experience.

Björn: It’s about providing a really good experience from what the users want, uh, and also being able to put. [00:48:45] Merchants from front and center for, for all of our users, um, uh, to help them acquire new customers. I think that’s something good to call out.

Josua: Yeah, for sure. I mean, and, and it makes total sense, like when you have built this [00:49:00] very big ecosystem, the most successful or the most thing that makes most sense for you guys is to build, to expand the ecosystem.

Josua: And the way you expand it is by creating value to all the people, so they wanna join. So it’s,

Björn: yeah,

Josua: it’s like win-win.

Björn: And also like we, we expanded [00:49:15] bit further again, I said, I think I mentioned like the cashback program, which is, you know, we’re seeing some great results. More than 500 million, um, US dollars in, in GMB driven to merchants.

Björn: Uh, you know, we’ve seen 18 million clicks back to merchants over the [00:49:30] past, uh, 12 months. Uh, more than 2 million consumers using the cash back and just getting that as pure cash back to their account balance account where they actually make an interest. So like, it’s a good. A good ecosystem for everyone, consumers and for merchants.

Björn: [00:49:45] Um, so

Josua: yeah, I, I’m guessing, I mean, there’s, uh, it’s gonna be keep you, you and the team at Klar are busy, is kind of explaining all these things, both to merchants, both to consumers, both to, you know, others, external stakeholders, um, as you [00:50:00] continue to, to become even bigger and bigger and, uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Josua: It, it

Björn: is pretty common that when we go out and when we meet mid merchant partners, like they’re just, um, uh, surprised to the, like, the breadth of our business. Uh, like we’re not just building pl, like that’s just [00:50:15] infrastructure in our eyes, like moving money from point A to point bill or breaking it into a few installments.

Björn: That’s basics, and it’s everything around that that makes kind of like the, the offering really great and embraced by a lot of consumers. So.

Josua: [00:50:30] Exactly. Well, Bjorn, thank you so much for coming on. Uh, it was a pleasure to talk to you and likewise, for, for someone who is, um, from the Nordics, I think it’s super exciting to see Nordic companies, Swedish company doing so well.

Josua: Um, especially, you know, around the world [00:50:45] and, uh, you know, providing and doing well by providing a really good service, service to customers and, and, and merchants. So that. Uh, best of luck with you and the team. Hope you guys are, you know, successful in everything you do and, uh, there’s a potential [00:51:00] IPO coming at some point, so we look forward to that as well.

Josua: And, but yeah, thank you so much for taking the time to, to come on.

Björn: Thanks. Thanks so much for having me. It was great to be there. Talk soon.