Enfuce is a fast-growing fintech with a bold goal of becoming the #1 issuer processor in Europe and reach billions in ARR. We sat down with co-founder and co-CEO Monika Liikamaa to talk about what it takes to build a successful startup in a conservative industry: earning trust, hiring top talent, and moving fast while doing the right thing. We also talked about entrepreneurship as a mindset, the stress of building a company, and how small teams can do big things.
3 takeaways from the conversation with Monika Liikamaa
1. Entrepreneurship is a mindset, not a title
Monika didn’t start Enfuce because she wanted to be a founder. She started it because she saw a problem and knew there was a better way. She had already built banks, worked in telco infrastructure, and dealt with the pain of legacy systems. For her, entrepreneurship is about solving problems at scale regardless of age, job title, or timing. And it’s a lifestyle choice: stressful, demanding, but deeply meaningful.
2. Trust is the biggest challenge and the biggest moat
In fintech, technology is the “easy part”. Earning the trust of banks, governments, and large enterprises is much harder. Reputation is everything, and convincing conservative stakeholders to work with a startup requires credibility, experience, and operational excellence from day one.
3. Vision attracts talent and fuels speed
Hiring top people early on wasn’t about perks or paychecks. It was about having a clear mission: to do things better, faster, and at global scale. That vision helped attract people who wanted to solve real problems, move quickly, and work on something that matters.
Watch the episode:
Podcast transcript
Intro: [00:00:00] The Growth Pod is brought to you by janero, a leading growth agency in the [00:00:15] Nordics. We interview marketing experts, business leaders, and entrepreneurs to uncover the stories and strategies behind profitable growth.
Josua: Monica, thank you so much for coming on, [00:00:30] coming onto the show.
Monika: Thank you so much for having me.
Josua: So, um, I wanna get started, talk about, we’ve got a lot of things to cover. Um, but before we get there, maybe the first would be good to get a, give people kind of a sense of what F is because that’s obviously what you’re doing right [00:00:45] now and what you’re most well known for.
Josua: Yep. But I, I find that for the lay person I. FinTech is kind of a very, I mean, it’s a very big thing. So it took me a while and I, I’m, I’m not sure I fully understand exactly where you kind of fit into the landscape. So if you [00:01:00] could explain like what is infuse, what, what are you guys doing and maybe what was the, the insight that led you to start this after having worked for like a long time in, in payments and, and, and banking.
Josua: Yes.
Monika: Yeah. Uh, good question. FinTech is an [00:01:15] abbreviation, at least the OG meaning was financial technology. Then today it means, I don’t even understand what, what it means, anything. Yeah, it depends. Yeah, exactly. Like it, especially some years ago it was so hype, so anything [00:01:30] was labeled like it’s with AI now, if you put ai, the valuation goes up.
Monika: Yeah. Uh, I think 3, 4, 5 years ago, if you put FinTech, the valuation, uh, went up. But we are like og, so we are financial technology.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: But we are the [00:01:45] newcomers, even though we’re pretty old now, ’cause in nine, nine years in. But it’s ’cause we were the first one in the world to put the issuing of money. So giving out money, the enablement of doing payments, digital payments, and we put it in public cloud.
Monika: Uh, and the reason why we did [00:02:00] public cloud was because I wanted to build a company that enables payments in a way that we enable the issuance of money better, faster, and globally scalable. Hmm. And, and you know, better and faster. That’s, uh, [00:02:15] tech and uh, ways of working. But then globally scalable needed the infrastructure.
Monika: So the cloud infrastructure instead of the old school on-prem. But then of course understanding that cloud is physical data centers, but it’s with [00:02:30] someone who knows that as their core business. And hence we, we chose AWS back in the days and we have a very strong collaboration with them still. And so. If what, what we do is like, we have [00:02:45] companies that give out cards and then it depends on in what format.
Monika: You can have Apple Pay, Google Pay, physical card card, uh, cards, et cetera. But for different use cases, so banks wanting to give out debit or credit cards, we do [00:03:00] that. Uh, we do, for example, for the Finnish government, we enable disbursements cards, so the refugee cards, social benefits cards, et cetera. Uh, employee benefits cards for sw, for example, or [00:03:15] air passing.
Monika: In Sweden, uh, uh, we do fleet and mobility cars, so a lot of variety. But in the end, there’s a ledger that holds the funds. The funds can be prepaid or it can be a credit, and then [00:03:30] that ledger. Account needs a user interface and that can be anything that can connect to it. And we hold that whole infrastructure.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: So we can enable payments, uh, globally.
Josua: Okay. That, that was a good explanation. [00:03:45] Um, uh, uh, guessing Plao is one of your customers. Yes. Yeah. So that’s one. You, in one of our companies we use that. Yes. So I’m feel kind of familiar from that. Yes. Cool. Um, that sense. But what was it that led you to, was that the original vision with, uh, with, uh, infuse to, [00:04:00] to do what you just described?
Monika: Yes. We just do more of it.
Josua: So what was the insight then? ’cause I, I feel like that’s quite rare, isn’t it? That you have a vision that stays the same from founding of the company until a much bigger scale later, nine years later. What was the kind of insight that led you to, to [00:04:15] start, uh, infuse with?
Monika: Yeah. Uh, it’s a good question and I, I think for me it’s very, uh.
Monika: Easy. Mm-hmm. And that’s why I sometimes have problem with understanding other people about this pivoting to the right and left. But, but for, but for [00:04:30] me, I’m an old banker who used to be also in the telco industry, so building infrastructure, and I was so sick and tired of the processors. So the, the types of [00:04:45] players that we beca became in the end because they were so slow, everything cost so much money and, and everything was so hard.
Monika: And being part of building multiple banks, for example, in Finland was part of building s [00:05:00] bank from scratch. Like, yeah, it’s shit loads of work, but it’s not rocket science. And I don’t even think rocket science is that particularly hard, especially since my cousin actually do does it. And she’s very smart.
Monika: But just like, it’s a lot of things that needs to happen in [00:05:15] systematic way. That’s the same with payments. There’s a lot of regulation and there’s a lot of things. So what I, why I. Founded, uh, infuse was that I was working, uh, at a other processor, uh, building [00:05:30] the infrastructure, and then I was, uh, done with that.
Monika: ’cause I wanted to scale and they didn’t. And then I took a job at Okia Bank, which is the Finn, uh, bank. And, uh, [00:05:45] going through the pain of working with the usual suspect, so the legacy providers, I was like, for fuck’s sake, how hard can this be? It’s not that hard. And then, uh, opportunity presented itself where I was asked that if I would want [00:06:00] to become a CEO and build a new payment, um, company.
Monika: And I was like, no, been there, done that. I don’t wanna do it, but how are you gonna run the infrastructure? And then they were like, oh, we’re in an RFP. Are we going to, you know, ask [00:06:15] next C Nets, CGI theater. I was like, is it okay if I make a proposal? Hmm. And then, because I was like. I know there is a better way.
Monika: Uh, and that was the problem we went out to solve. And we were [00:06:30] lucky enough to, to land that customer win that, uh, deal. And, and with that we were able to really focus on building the infrastructure. We have meaning like [00:06:45] we wanted to build it in a way that it’s never down. So like high availability, uh, no limitation on scaling on volumes, no global restrictions from a infrastructure perspective.
Monika: There’s a lot of regulation and stuff. Yeah. [00:07:00] But like from, from a technical perspective. And that’s what we started to do. And then I remember when I called my former, former colleagues and, and, and then chief architects and, and co-founders, and they were like, [00:07:15] yeah, we should go cloud. I was like, ah, 2016 cloud.
Monika: No bank has ever like, and no one has ever put anything critical, you know, some HR systems or stuff like, but not nothing critical like, uh, [00:07:30] payments in a public cloud. And, uh, they were like, but that’s the only way to scale globally. And then I was like, yeah, and we don’t actually have any money. Uh, because it, it used to cost millions to, to buy OnPrem.
Monika: And that’s when we started negotiating with AWS [00:07:45] and, and Microsoft, because Azure didn’t exist at that time yet as a, they fucked the product. And then, um, AWS had been around for 10 years and we were like, or the guys were like, this is [00:08:00] really hardcore shit. Like this could really work. And then that’s what we started to do and, and that’s, uh, what we still do.
Monika: And now we just do more of it. So, so we started off by building that it can do global.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: But now we are actually there. So I think that’s [00:08:15] the, the funny thing that. The infrastructure is something that I’m really proud of. There’s a lot of stuff that I’m really proud of, but it, it’s funny that, that has always been really good.
Monika: And then I also think that [00:08:30] the whole mindset of like, once you deploy something, it becomes legacy. So all the time, having this drive to make it better, I think that’s a really, really key factor in why we are where we are and why we are coming for the, [00:08:45] uh, legacy providers.
Josua: That’s very good. Um, so were you guys the first then to put, uh, in the world like payment solution on, on the cloud?
Monika: Yeah. In the world. Wow. Yeah.
Josua: And that was not that long ago, but you, you know, I [00:09:00] mean for obviously, I mean, it’s a, well that, that leads to kind of like a, a, a follow up question, which is like, payments and finance is very conservative. Yes. For understandable reasons. Yes. So, okay. One thing is just billing the tech side and you, like you explained, it’s.
Josua: You know, it’s not rocket science. It’s doing [00:09:15] a yes. You know, hard things, but you Yes. In a systematic fashion. But then there’s the other piece which is convincing people to trust you.
Monika: Yes.
Josua: How did you go about doing that?
Monika: That’s the harder part. Uh, and uh, [00:09:30] I do think that background and age plays a part in it.
Monika: So would I have succeeded the way we have succeeded if I would have done this 10 years [00:09:45] earlier? Yeah, I don’t think so. And then I don’t look at where tech was and blah, blah, blah, but like, if we just put, like me 10 years younger, I was 41 when we started and she was 42. And I had [00:10:00] already been building multiple banks, like doing complex stuff.
Monika: I had already in the late, uh, nineties, early two thousands, been, uh, leaving the.com boom and the crash in the telco industry and the infrastructure. That gave me [00:10:15] credibility, not just because it gave me credibility in the cv, but it gave me credibility. Like I knew, I knew what I was talking about and the people I started building FUS with, I had worked with them for many [00:10:30] years, which was also like, I knew, we knew what we were talking about.
Monika: I think my biggest challenge, uh, with, with the, with the, with the, the closest of my co-founders has been that sometimes they don’t [00:10:45] understand how good they are.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: So, so we are like, ’cause I remember to Nicholas and, and William, I was like, for fuck’s sake guys, you’re the best in the world because no one else has done it and we’ve succeeded.
Monika: AKA, you’re the best. [00:11:00] So it’s funny, but it’s been, that’s probably one of the challenges, like really making sure, but not in an arrogant way, but like humble in wanting to learn more, but also realizing like. Because when you go and sell to a bank mm-hmm. Whose [00:11:15] biggest risk is the reputation. And, and I think it was, uh, Warren Buffet to say that rep reputation, uh, it, it takes 37 years to build and 37 minutes to lose.
Monika: Mm-hmm. And, and I think that’s exactly it. So for [00:11:30] banks, choosing a challenger was the biggest, uh, challenge. And it was funny enough that I didn’t realize that in the early days because then we maybe not wouldn’t have started. Yeah. [00:11:45] Because our first customers were big corporations and we’re like, yeah, fuck yeah.
Monika: Mm-hmm. And then we started like selling. Mm. And then it was like every bank was like, oh my God, yes. Come and talk to us. And we started meetings and explain. Oh, [00:12:00] interesting. And they’re like, okay, so should we do something? No, no, no, no. We can’t do it. Like, that’s really interesting. And now let’s say. Seven, eight years in.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: We started like, uh, I think one of the key customers in [00:12:15] really changing the narrative on the banking side was, uh, that we were able to, to land in Iceland, uh, clicker bank and then SEB embedded in Sweden. So, [00:12:30] so really showcasing, but before we could do that, we needed to have T one, we needed to have, okay.
Monika: Q eight, we needed to have play or et cetera, et cetera.
Josua: Yeah. I mean, what you mentioned there is like, it’s really difficult if you don’t have the experience, the [00:12:45] connections, you know, how to, how the banks think. And also, like you said, I mean the confidence that comes from knowing, knowing what you know.
Monika: Yes.
Josua: That’s huge.
Monika: Yeah. I, I, I do think so. Which, which also means that for anyone, I always say it’s never too [00:13:00] early and it’s never too late to be a founder.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: And don’t think about if you. If, if you fail. I think the, the thing in Finland, we talk too much about failure as a bad thing. And that’s why I, I don’t usually use that [00:13:15] word, uh, because it’s so stigmatized with something really bad and shameful.
Monika: But, but I think it’s a learning process. And looking at myself, this is was my second company. So I started, uh, in 2006 before I [00:13:30] went, like, the reason why I started building s bank or was, uh, had that opportunity was because I had founded a company where I did consulting. Uh, and we, we were trying to, to consult and I went [00:13:45] into, uh, s group, s bank project with a test manager and the guy we had sold to the bank, he was pretty shit apparently.
Monika: So then I met the CIO of of, of the, of of S group, and he was like, you know, Monica, this is work, you know, I was [00:14:00] like, but this isn’t that hard, like this, this, this, this, this thing. And he was like, okay, good. Then you come instead of him. And we had just, and I was like, yeah, of course. And, and that’s been really a key thing because I learned the hard way [00:14:15] so much, uh, during that project.
Monika: And, and I was so deep into everything, which means that now when I’m also very sales driven, I can really have that discussion and we can really have those [00:14:30] discussions with our customers and showcase the strength. And it’s been really important.
Josua: So kind of going back to what you said there about, I mean, it makes so much sense that if you have that domain expertise, you know what the problems are, you know, there’s a better way that you start a company [00:14:45] and do that.
Josua: Yes. But obviously it’s, it’s not that common. So what was it that that made you become a founder? And do you think that’s something that you know, you could teach? Or does it come from your background, the way you grew up, your, your kind of early [00:15:00] experiences? Where do you think it comes from?
Monika: I think it’s a combination of everything.
Monika: Uh, I do think that, uh, you should solve a problem. Like I know [00:15:15] that some people just wanna be a founder or entrepreneur like that, that I don’t, I don’t even understand, like, entrepreneur lives. I wanna be an entrepreneur, I wanna be an entrepreneur. And my question would be, okay, but what does that mean?
Monika: Because what it means is hard work [00:15:30] sacrifice. And did I say hard work and did I say sacrifice? So nothing, nothing big.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: Ever came easy. So you will have to be systematic and work. So I, I don’t [00:15:45] know how to answer that question, but I talk to a lot of people in different ages. Like I, I, I talk about entrepreneurship, uh, also from, from a younger generation.
Monika: So from, from like, [00:16:00] uh, high, high schoolers to uni students, et cetera. And. I think that the mindset is the key. Like if you have a mindset of wanting to solve things, I think that is critical. [00:16:15] And, and then, uh, uh, how to be a founder. It’s very hard, uh, work.
Josua: Yeah. But
Monika: it’s a lifestyle. I think it’s a lifestyle in the end of the day.
Josua: Yeah. And like you said, I mean, if you, if you just pursue [00:16:30] being a founder because you like the title or the status or whatever you think it is, you, you’re not gonna, you have to like the, the actual process to work.
Monika: Yes. Yeah. You, you need to like the pain.
Josua: That’s a good, um, was it like Elon [00:16:45] Musk or someone who said that, talk about starting a company is like chewing glass or something like that and staring into abyss.
Monika: Yeah. I think he’s a psycho though, but that’s kind of when, when shit goes too far.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: And, and he should probably be on other kind of medication that what he [00:17:00] uses, but yes. I would, my, I would say it’s enjoying the, the pain in, in, in a way. Like I, I don’t wanna like, like, it’s not horrible, but, but I, I know that people talk about this [00:17:15] work life balance, especially in the Nordics work life balance.
Monika: I don’t understand what that even means for, for me it’s a lifestyle choice and, and there is seldom balance. I have like a bit of flu left because I started off the [00:17:30] year and I oftenly end the year with telling to Denise like, oh my God, it was a horrible, this was the worst year ever. And then this year was like in February, I was like, oh my God, this is the worst year ever.
Monika: And she’s like, fuck, it’s February. And then I realize it’s because we are [00:17:45] starting to scale now. You always think that, you know, the path is somewhat what happening until you realize that it actually is. And we are actually now finally starting to scale. And [00:18:00] with that comes different problems. Mm-hmm. Uh, so yeah, it, it’s a bit of a challenging work.
Monika: So in the end of the day, it’s just hard work, but it’s enjoying the ride somehow. And the second you [00:18:15] pause and relax, so the second the cortisol level goes down, the flu will hit because the immune system will kick in. And then you realize like, oh fuck, I haven’t had time to be sick. So as soon as you relax a bit, [00:18:30] you will get sick.
Josua: Yeah. Uh, yeah, exactly. Uh, speaking of Denise, I’m always. Uh, curious how founding teams come together because you know, you, you know that when you’re starting a company, you’re setting out on this journey that’s gonna [00:18:45] be multiple years.
Monika: Yes.
Josua: It’s gonna require a lot of hard work. Uh, a lot of challenges, conflict.
Josua: Yes. Trust is huge. Yes. So how did you and Denise decide that, Hey, we should do this hard thing together?
Monika: Well, we, we, we [00:19:00] used to work, uh, together before, so I used to be her boss back in, back in the days and before that I used to be her customer. And she was this, uh, in those days she was young and she’s [00:19:15] younger than me.
Monika: So she was, she was young and very ambitious and very driven. So like, we done some psycho test and she actually comes out with entrepreneur. She’s from a very small portion of people that she’s very entrepreneur minded [00:19:30] and, and, uh. Very focused on delivering, getting shit done. And, uh, that’s how we, we, we work together.
Monika: And then when I left Croskey, I said to her that [00:19:45] someday we’ll work together again. Mm-hmm. I didn’t know when or why or how, but I just knew that someday, uh, because I, I really like working with smart people who have the same level of ambition, uh, but aren’t like me. [00:20:00] Like different. And, and, and that’s what we are.
Monika: And then when this opportunity came about, about, uh, building something that then would become infuse, she was the first one I called and she was [00:20:15] so fed up and bored where she was that when I called her, I, I remember it, uh, I think it was like February, uh, 2016. I was like, Hey. And I, I left in, in, uh, [00:20:30] I resigned in October.
Monika: Uh, from Krosky and then in February called her and said like, Hey, should we, and she was like, yes. What? I’m like, should we just build a company that does this better? Mm-hmm. Like better, you know, faster and, and, and globally scalable. And [00:20:45] she like, yeah, let’s do it. And that’s how we started, uh, working. And uh, of course it’s been ups and downs, but the vision of where we need to take infuse, it’s, it’s our baby in that sense.
Monika: So even though [00:21:00] we are not always, you know, aligned and we don’t every day love each other in that way, like it, it’s a marriage. It’s my work wifey. So it’s always in the best interest of the company. That’s what we talk about, like every time. It’s like, what’s best for the [00:21:15] company. So it’s a little bit like what’s best for the children, even though you might disagree, you need to align and then get it done.
Josua: I think that that probably takes a certain. F maturity, uh, to have that kind of self distance [00:21:30] to actually be able to think like that. ’cause a lot of people are, they’ve really struggle. I mean also with, probably with their real children. Yes. They struggle not to live out through their own children. Yes.
Josua: Like it, how, how do you create that? How do you create that distance that you, and you and Denise are both able to have conflict, constructive [00:21:45] conflict, and then make decisions that are best for infuse regardless of how you may personally feel about the decision or how may impact you?
Monika: I think we have the, the destructive conflicts are in private, so we, you can get pissed off at each other and, and, [00:22:00] uh, and uh, so, so you know, like, but then everyone knows what’s at stake because in the end it’s all about the company.
Monika: So even if you are pissed off as fuck here and now. The other one, we, we [00:22:15] learned to understand how we work. So you, you know how to push, you know, don’t push the button, and then you push it anyway. You’re like, fuck, okay, I need, and then, you know, the consequences and, and that’s what happened. But in the end, sometimes it is to trigger that pause and that, and sometimes it’s [00:22:30] just because like accidentally push a button and they’re like, oh fuck.
Monika: And then that comes. But we’ve always come out stronger. So I think again, that’s been a good learning curve to understand that through [00:22:45] this, you know, ups and downs, we do come out stronger. And I think in the end it’s because we are old grownups. I mean, like, I have four children, she has two children.
Monika: Mm-hmm. So [00:23:00] it, it’s, it’s life. Life life teaches you the hard way. Or, and I, I think there was some statistics, the shit lose of statistics, but I think that that. The average successful founder is over 45.
Josua: Yeah. That’s [00:23:15] something that we don’t really think or talk about enough. Yeah. I find,
Monika: yeah, because you think, ’cause I remember when we started and we were interviewed by, uh, someone, I don’t remember, was it, uh, Swedish newspaper, whatever, and they were like, [00:23:30] you are so different.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: You are not 23-year-old guys. You are actually 40 plus female. What are you doing wrong? And we’re like, or are we doing it the right way?
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: So, so I think, I also don’t, like, I’m not [00:23:45] saying like a guy or young guy couldn’t succeed. Of course they can, but just understanding that it’s, it’s, it’s not usual for a successful founder to be really young.
Monika: Mm-hmm. And I think it’s correlates to [00:24:00] experience. Mm-hmm.
Josua: Yeah. But as you, you need to like have that, um, I guess as, as, as we grow older, we become comfortable and we, we fall into this career trap. Yes. Which is we are climb the ladder and we are deathly afraid of taking a few steps [00:24:15] back and start something new.
Josua: We, if it means we have to lower our title, lower our salary. Yes.
Monika: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a funny thing because, uh, if you look at my career, it doesn’t make any sense that I become a founder because I was a CIO in s [00:24:30] bank was sitting in the management team, and then I was bored as fuck. So then I went to krosky, started building the card and mobile payment from scratch again in the management team wanted to scale, the owners didn’t, and then I, uh.[00:24:45]
Monika: We signed, and as I have four children, I needed to pay mortgage I took a job at, but I already then said that I’m just gonna be a project. Like I’m gonna figure out what I wanna do next. Yeah. So I’ll, I’ll do these things for money. [00:25:00] And, uh, I think that if I would have wanted to stick around, I probably today would be in the, the management team, at least in, in the bank, but realizing that I’ve been there, done that, I want something, something bigger.[00:25:15]
Monika: And I, I do remember when I was, uh, uh, handing in, like, I, I drove a BMW, I had really good salary, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I, I founded Infuse and my, my [00:25:30] husband brought my, first, bought me my first car ’cause I didn’t have time. Mm-hmm. I really love cars. So, so he, he bought me a car and he bought me a used for Fiesta.
Monika: And I remember [00:25:45] when I was driving it and the sun was shining and that moment of happiness and freedom, that was really amazing. ’cause I knew I was doing something that I wanted to be doing. So I think one of the [00:26:00] biggest challenges for people is this mindset of how things should look like. Yeah. Because when I resigned from, [00:26:15] or like, I wasn’t even hired because I was doing a project, but, and started my, my mother-in-law, uh, she’s uh, born in, in the eastern part of Finland.
Monika: Just after the war, she was [00:26:30] like, oh my God, it’s gonna go bankrupt. ’cause that’s like, oh my God, you have four children, you’re leaving. But then what I’ve always said to everyone, like. If there’s any country in the world where you should have the courage to [00:26:45] be a founder or entrepreneur’s Finland, ’cause nothing bad can really happen to you because we are such a socialist country that you don’t even have to fucking work and will take care of you.
Monika: Which means that if you put in the [00:27:00] hours and you succeed, like for us for example, we have 140 people of which I think half are in Finland, so 70 people with families, et cetera. We, we enable work for [00:27:15] them and they are, are part of building. I think that’s the awesomeness. Mm-hmm. I think in Finland we should much more focus on what if it succeeds.
Monika: ’cause we have a lot of good examples. I’m really happy now with Mickey K and Wal also because [00:27:30] we used to be so successful in the gaming.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: But now we start having, you know, different kind of platform, uh, capabilities. And also now I, I, et cetera, IQM. Good, bad. There’s a lot of good stuff [00:27:45] happening and we should be much more as a nation.
Monika: Like, wow, what if that succeeds and enable that instead of this very Finnish thinking, uh, it’s gonna go to shit. Yeah. And it’s gonna be embarrassing unless you are [00:28:00] Swedish speaking, Finn, that’s the only ones who are allowed to succeed because by default your type of minority are destined to succeed. And then as such, the rest of the fins are destined to fail.
Monika: And that’s a [00:28:15] narrative we need to change.
Josua: I think you’re absolutely right about the being destined because that’s like what we. Because it’s, it’s always uncomfortable to say, I knew it was gonna fail, you know? Yes. Saying that, you know. Oh, yeah. Um, and it, it’s, there’s safety in that and it probably has to do [00:28:30] with the war and a lot of different factors.
Josua: Yes. But, um, but it’s very interesting, like you mentioned, Finland should be proof that it’s not really the economic risk that people are afraid of because like you said, we have this best social prob or one of the best in the world. Yes. But still people [00:28:45] are afraid and probably be fear of failure, fear of, uh, judgment from people.
Josua: Fear of
Monika: shame.
Josua: Shame.
Monika: Yeah. And shame can only come from one thing. It’s if you give a shit about what other people think. So you [00:29:00] only need two things to succeed. You need courage. I don’t give a shit about what other people think. And then I think the third one, which is critical, don’t be an asshole. Mm-hmm.
Monika: So with these three, don’t be an asshole. Don’t give a [00:29:15] shit about what other people think and have the courage. That’s the only thing you need to know. Or have, uh, when you start working and the rest will come. Because the, the good thing is also we think we like to help. So if you ask [00:29:30] for help or advice, you will get it.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: So you only have to have the courage to do that.
Josua: Yeah, for sure. Uh, someone said something similar about like, uh, it’s a superpower. The ability to look like an idiot is a superpower.
Monika: Yeah. And then [00:29:45] I, yeah, and I, and I, and I, I agree and I understand what you mean, but I, but I think again here, like who’s the idiot?
Monika: Mm-hmm. So like, it’s, again, I got the perspective. And, and for me, especially, I, I really want to change the language of how we talk [00:30:00] about success. I don’t like the Finnish word for entrepreneur because we are, it, it means trying. We are not fucking trying. We’re doing.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: So could it be Techia?
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: Doer. Because in, in [00:30:15] English, it’s entrepreneur and in Swedish is further targeted.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: It has nothing to do with trying, we’re not trying, we are doing, so again, how we talk about stuff. Mm-hmm. I think it’s our biggest challenge as a nation.
Josua: Yeah. I I [00:30:30] think you’re definitely, definitely on something. Um, so, so going back to kind of the early days, um, you mentioned now you have 140 employees.
Josua: Um, what was it like building out the team in the beginning? And, you know, obviously, I mean, you have a high ambition [00:30:45] level. Yep. Which means you wanna attract the best employees. Yeah. Best employees, by definition have options. They probably have good salaries elsewhere. So how did you go about attracting that top talent in the beginning when it was, well, you know, you were un unproven as a [00:31:00] company.
Monika: It is the vision and the mission. It is like,
Monika: you need to find people who know. Really well [00:31:15] stuff, meaning like, they bring something to the table and they need to be the people that don’t do it for the money.
Josua: Mm.
Monika: And it’s a very hard like thing to find.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: But, but it’s, uh, it’s around [00:31:30] finding the people whose ambition level, who, who wants to change stuff, who wants to make something better or bigger or, or fix something harder.
Monika: So, so I think those are the [00:31:45] things that, um, are important, which means that the purpose, the reason why you’re doing it has to be such that. That, uh, it, it, I think the word inspires is sometimes used a bit too. [00:32:00] Fluffy. Fluffy. But you know, in Finn when, so like, when you’re like, fucking hell, there has to be like, ah, ice under the prize.
Monika: What is the price? Why are we doing this? What are we changing? And I think one, one, uh, [00:32:15] story that has been really important for the identity of, of infuse was when Russia, uh, invaded Ukraine. And, uh, one month [00:32:30] in, uh, to, to the war. Uh, we got an email, it was a Thursday morning, uh, Denise came to me and she said like, Hey, we got an email from Visa Europe that Visa, uh, US had asked [00:32:45] on behalf of unicef could we enable the disbursement of cards.
Monika: With money to the refugees. So people had started fleeing. So women and children were fleeing, uh, Ukraine [00:33:00] and, and they needed, ’cause they just left. So they needed, the banks didn’t work and et cetera. They needed to get the support funds. And uh, we were like, of course, uh, let’s look at it. And, and I remember we were sitting on the Thursday morning [00:33:15] and in the Thursday afternoon we were like, yeah, we’re gonna do it and we’re gonna do it for free.
Monika: And then we were like, okay, but we need plastic cards and we need money and we need shitloads of stuff. So we were like, okay. Took the team, sat down and said, this is [00:33:30] what we need to do and we need to do it fast. In, in it usually takes around three to six to eight months to do these things. So we sat down and, uh, called some phone calls or many phone calls and in the [00:33:45] end and did a lot of stuff during the weekend and in the end on Monday morning, we informed that yes.
Monika: We are gonna have the physical plastic cards at the blue points, which are the refugee points where the, for example, in [00:34:00] Poland where the refugees came, that you can distribute the cards with the funds. So during the week, and we had started raising funds to the card, we have received donations, the plastic from a card manufacturer.
Monika: We had done all the technical infrastructure, [00:34:15] legal stuff. We had done the compliance review. We had written the terms and conditions on how to use the card in English and the Ukrainian, everything was fucking ready to go on Monday and on Wednesday the cards would be there. [00:34:30] And then UNICEF said no. And it was because they didn’t, there was no one who had ever been able to do it.
Monika: Mm-hmm. At that speed. And we did a world record there again, and we did it just because what we do in normal life. [00:34:45] It’s something we know how to, and I think that’s been a story of success. Of course, we today we help with different disbursements cards and in multiple, uh, uh, locations in Europe. But that was really, that was [00:35:00] really something that proved to us that when we do the things we do, the way we do it, when it really matters, we can get it done.
Josua: And
Monika: it really gets goosebumps now. I mean, like mm-hmm. And I didn’t do [00:35:15] much.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: But you know, when you get that and you get that, like, now let’s fucking do it, and how much it mattered. People can do amazing things.
Josua: And that must be like, as a founder and, and CEO Co. CEO, that must be [00:35:30] one of the most energizing things, is seeing the team that you’ve assembled Yes.
Josua: Come together and move very quickly. That, that to me is like one of the most impressive metric is always speed. Yes. In any organization, if you can do something and bring something to market. Like in the halftime or Yes. In [00:35:45] one 10th of a time. It’s always like hat, you know? Yeah. I’m always impressed by that.
Josua: Uh, one, one other, maybe kind of similar, but maybe another pivotal moment was the Apple Pay. Yeah. When you brought that can, can you talk about Yes. What happened there? Yeah. And I was, you guys were the first [00:36:00] together, or like in in
Monika: Yes. Not in cooperation with
Josua: Nordea or at the same time.
Monika: No. At the same time.
Monika: Yeah. That was a funny thing. So in 2016 we were going cloud, I know Apple has started to come out. I don’t remember when they started coming [00:36:15] out to the market 2014 or whatever. Mm-hmm. And, and uh, they had reached out to banks, uh, who would be the first to issue Apple Pay. And I think we had just gotten in contact as working really well in, in Finland and stuff like that.
Monika: Mm-hmm. And, uh, [00:36:30] we were doing for SD one, uh, consumer revolving credits in Sweden. Uh, Finland and Norway and, uh, uh, uh, revolving credit cards. And we were just about to go live. Uh, or the aim was that we would go [00:36:45] live with that product in three countries, three currencies, two time zones in June, uh, 2017. And then it was April.
Monika: It was some, uh, Jesus holiday, I don’t [00:37:00] remember, Christ, whatever. Uh, and, uh, the, the CEO of, of, uh, SD one Nordic at that point, Kim be, or he called me and said, Hey Monica, uh, can you come to the office on Thursday? Uh, I said, [00:37:15] yeah, sure. It was a bank holiday. I was like, yeah, sure. What is it? Yeah, well, apple is, is gonna be present.
Monika: I was like, okay, cool. So I went there and, and they were like, yeah, apple is coming to the Nordics and uh, we wanna be part of that launch. And we haven’t even launched yet, the [00:37:30] actual product. And I was like. Cool. Of course. So when, when, when is this happening? And then Apple Guy was like, yeah, you need to be ready by mid-September because the launch is going to be in, I think it was like mid-October.
Monika: And I was like, [00:37:45] what do you mean with Ready? Yeah. Well the app has to be certified, you know, at a lab and the use case because they’re really anal about how it works and flows and everything. And I was like, yeah, but that shit flow sometime like May, June, July. Mm. [00:38:00] And then I was, yeah, sure we’ll do it. They went, went back to the team and I think we were like 12, 13 people at that time.
Monika: And uh, I called MasterCard and I was like, Hey, we need to do this tokenization, so we need to, to make that, [00:38:15] uh, account number, uh, into a token so we can then, uh, provision it into Apple Pay, uh, and uh, all the authentication and everything. Uh, how long does that usually take? And they were like, yeah, it’s around 11 months.
Monika: And I was like. [00:38:30] Yeah, we’ll do it, but we don’t have that much time. And I remember every time everyone asked like, what did you do summer of 2017? And I was like, I don’t remember. They’re like, ah, we did Apple Pay. And uh, and uh, that’s what we did. And I [00:38:45] remember when we launched, uh, in, uh, October and we started at five in the morning, I picked up my, my co-founder, Nicholas from Foreign in, in Avara.
Monika: So this, uh, ’cause we were really poor back then, [00:39:00] so we, we, uh, Denise used to live at my place until my husband was like, fuck sake, can you please start making some money so she can go and sleep somewhere else? The problem was that she started always exercising really early in the morning and everyone was like, for fuck’s sake.
Monika: But then I picked up Nicholas at five in the [00:39:15] morning. We drove to the SD one office, did all the prep work, and then when it launched in the Nordics and the only other who launched was not there.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: And everyone was like, what the [00:39:30] fuck is st one? And then I remember when someone was like, this is amazing.
Monika: You can actually apply. So without having anything, you can download the st one app, apply for a, a credit of [00:39:45] 5,000 or 3000 euros, do the whole onboarding, the, the credit scoring, get the car, like get it accepted, provision it to Apple Pay, and go and pay immediately. And anything from not having anything [00:40:00] to paying a high value payment in less than three minutes.
Monika: And then I was like, fuck, that’s amazing. Actually, I didn’t, hadn’t thought about it at all. And that’s when the phone started ringing.
Josua: Was that, did that have like a, a meaningful impact in the trajectory of the [00:40:15] company? Massive. What was the biggest impact? Was it inbound? Like
Monika: Yes. That’s when the inbound started.
Monika: Mm. And I remember when I, I was in some, I think couple of weeks later, I always, at some event. And then one of the big [00:40:30] banks in, in Finland with the Orange logo called and I was, oh fuck, they’re trying to sell me some insurances.
Josua: Mm-hmm. I was
Monika: like, you know, like, oh God. And they were like, Monica, because yeah, this Apple Pay thing, um,[00:40:45]
Monika: how many are you? Well, 15, but that’s not possible. Hmm. I said, but yet it works. And, uh, yeah, and I think they launched Apple Pay seven [00:41:00] years later or three. I don’t, but like, I know, I think it was S Bank launched seven years later. But anyway, but like op, I think it took three, four years. So we, we really tried to say to them that we could help them, but uh, their procurement process was a [00:41:15] bit different.
Monika: So
Josua: I, I think people don’t realize how. How, how much actually quicker it’s smaller. Team aligned and committed can work versus a big company. Yes. It’s like, or a big organization. Yes,
Monika: yes.
Josua: It’s massive.
Monika: [00:41:30] Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I think in the big organizations there, it’s all always all about the people. Yes. So if you can find the structure of this is what we need to get done and these are the skills we need to get it done.
Monika: Mm. Then you will. So if you look at Apple, how they launch [00:41:45] products, it’s very small teams in the end of the day. Mm-hmm.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: Because it’s like having that understanding that you need to have a lot of people when you, you, you like run the engine, but when you need to get certain things done, you need to, to [00:42:00] bring in the competencies and then you need to make it business as usual.
Monika: So of course one of the key challenges is when you have things in production that you don’t fuck it up. Feeling like when you build new [00:42:15] stuff, you need to have really. Understanding of the complexity you already have and how you deploy it, how you test it, et cetera.
Josua: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you mentioned that you’re now starting to scale.
Monika: Yes.
Josua: But you know, I I, okay. The public numbers from I think from [00:42:30] 2023 was like 12 million in revenue or something like that.
Monika: Yeah. So we hit now in, uh, in 20 million and to this year we are projected to grow around 55, 60%.
Josua: Okay. Wow. So you’re not, you, I mean, you already reached a [00:42:45] level that’s very, very significant and now growing at, at,
Monika: yeah.
Monika: Now we’re starting, yeah. And I’m really like, for me, it’s a fucking hell. Mm-hmm. In my life we should be already over a hundred million.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: So we are really like
Josua: behind shit.
Monika: Yeah. So I’m [00:43:00] really disappointed. I, and, but I think that’s also one of the key items.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: The day I am satisfied is probably the day something is going really wrong, or I’m just like bored outta my head because I, I think there has to be this level of.
Monika: Yes. [00:43:15] Of not being okay with where we are. Uh, because you don’t, then you don’t push yourself. Yes. But definitely from a numbers game, uh, it’s been slow because [00:43:30] of the compliance. Uh, but now when you, so we have built the foundation. Yeah. We have said no to a lot of things. Like if I would have done it for the money where I can see some of our competitors, the challenger ones, they have gone to [00:43:45] shit because of money laundering and, and and how do you do money launder?
Monika: Well, you enable gambling, adult and entertainment and shit like that. We are really focused on fighting human trafficking, money laundering, terrorist financing. And that’s why we land now, [00:44:00] banks, states, governments. Uh,
Josua: I mean, there’s been some, I don’t know if was Wirecard, like, did they do similar things?
Josua: Yeah, that
Monika: was just a fucking yeah, scam.
Josua: Have you read the book? Uh, I think it’s called Money Man.
Monika: Yeah, yeah, [00:44:15] yeah. Uh, it’s
Josua: fantastic.
Monika: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. I lived, I I I watched it. Yeah. Yeah.
Josua: You saw, did you?
Monika: No, I lived it because I didn’t like, it’s funny because remember if, if you look at the guys at, at Wirecard and [00:44:30] then you take out the fact that they’re fucking fraudsters, but just the background is very similar to me.
Monika: Telco payment, like then going in, but the thing was, that was just a scam, but I remember, I think it was 2019, [00:44:45] uh, June, when they collapsed, it was a month. ’cause I just remember that we had one of our, our sales guys, he, he was, uh, he was uh, pretty new. So just outta school. [00:45:00] And it was him and me. We, we, but like the rest were on vacation.
Monika: There wasn’t so many of buses back in those days. And then Wirecard started collapsing and uh, what happened was that the card stopped working. So the Finn company, like holiday, their card [00:45:15] stopped working. Oh,
Josua: they were using, yeah, they had wire
Monika: cards, so they were running away. So Wirecard was exactly like us.
Monika: Yeah, but like fraud. Yeah, fraud. But much bigger also. So, uh, so it was like the amount of phone calls that came then was [00:45:30] massive. But you were like, I can’t help you because infrastructure migration isn’t that easy. But we also have the licenses, but Yeah. But it was an interesting. It, it was an interesting thing
Josua: just out of, and for people who don’t know, I mean, Wirecard was this big, I mean, [00:45:45] they were like almost a 30 billion Euro market cap at some point.
Josua: They
Monika: were over over 30. Over 30, yes.
Josua: Yeah. And part of like the Docs 30, I think, index. Yes. They
Monika: were bigger than Deutsche Bank
Josua: and, and like, so massive. Like they were, they had the stamp of approval from like all these big institutions. Yeah, yeah,
Monika: yeah. So the, the, [00:46:00] yeah. So they were, they were sanctioned by the, the German financial Supervisor Authority.
Monika: And I always said that we, we chose to go with the Finnish one, of course. ’cause we’re fins and, and as a fins we are really compliant. Like, and that’s been a really good thing. [00:46:15] So I do think that the Finnish, uh, supervisory authority, FSA, their reputation skyrocket. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rocketed, uh, uh, as a, also as a con consequence of buffing, really like, uh, going to shit.[00:46:30]
Josua: Yeah. It was a, just a kind of out, out of curiosity, did you, ’cause you were. You know, you, you were doing the same thing. You were following probably their journey pretty closely. And, and a lot of people who obviously did not know the industry were completely fooled, including like big accounting firms and all that.
Josua: [00:46:45] Yes. But did you, uh, did you kind of have any question marks, any, anything that stood out or how closely were you paying attention to what was going on in Germany?
Monika: Uh, we, we were actually, we had a couple of customers that [00:47:00] were leaving Wirecard for us already before they collapsed. So of course we understood the infrastructure that that wasn’t very, you know, sophisticated.
Monika: But they were born out of prepay card, so like pre-funded, so pretty [00:47:15] simplistic. But we were like, I was impressed by them because I, I couldn’t, like, naive as I were, I didn’t think that it was such a bluff in that scale.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: Uh, so that, that was an interesting, but then we’ve seen others, there’s been other players that have had similar [00:47:30] things and that’s also.
Monika: Uh, why the UK Financial Conduct Authority, the FCA, has become much stricter and we are also licensed there. So I, I really like that notion of, you know, [00:47:45] using compliance as, um, an enabler. I think many are like, okay, let’s find a way to not comply. Let, let’s find a way to do the business as long as possible without complying.
Monika: Then [00:48:00] of course, I do also think that there’s too much regulation. Uh, I was part of the European, uh, banking authorities, uh, uh, central Banks, uh, meeting, uh, and, uh, [00:48:15] we were, they were, the FinTech industry was representing. We are having the dialogue around the regulatory, uh, landscape, and because of this Wirecard scandals, et cetera, I think we are too afraid.
Monika: So we are [00:48:30] afraid of, of, of trying stuff. And as such, we are regulating stuff so much that we are, we are actually killing innovation. And I think that’s not a good thing. So, and, and I, one of the challenges is the lack of collaboration. I know [00:48:45] that the countries collaborate, but if you look at Europe, there’s a lot of different cultures, background ways of being, and that is a bit of a challenge.
Monika: It could also be a strength, but currently we are not capable [00:49:00] yet of, of materializing that as a positive. It’s more negative.
Josua: But like you said, it puts, uh, infuse in a good position. You build, you’ve taken these years, um, even though it’s moved too slowly for you Yes. But you built, uh, built the [00:49:15] foundation.
Josua: Yes. Um, so what does then scale and growth look like now? Is it just like growing in into different segments or different markets or, or different services?
Monika: Growing in volume. So for, for me personally, and, and of course with Denise, we talked a lot about this [00:49:30] and, and for us it’s becoming number one. Uh, like I, I’m very competitive.
Monika: Mm-hmm. So for me, like sports metaphors makes sense. Mm-hmm. I wanna win the Olympics and, and you can’t win Olympics. Mm-hmm. You need to choose the Olympic sport.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: So we are really [00:49:45] focusing on like the banking side and then lending side mm-hmm. And anything and everything that evolves around it, but like really focusing on being the best in the world in those, and then becoming number one in Europe, uh, both in market [00:50:00] size and, and, uh, brand value and reputation.
Monika: And that will then enable us to do whatever we want. So I always said, I don’t wanna be anyone’s bitch. I wanna be able to decide, but for now, the focus is Europe, but we are also [00:50:15] going to Brazil with one customer. And, and it’s, uh, it’s a good business. Uh, it’s a, a good opportunity and it also showcases that our platform, the infrastructure is global.
Monika: Scalable.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: But [00:50:30] then where we decide to compete and win, it’s Europe for now. So for next year, Tito, every, we’re coming for Europe.
Josua: But that, that, that’s ex, I mean, that’s a huge vision in of itself because Europe is a big, big, big market. [00:50:45] Um, I’m kind of curious because like I, I know very little about FinTech.
Josua: Yep. Uh, almost as little as anyone. Yeah. But, uh, I read about, so I was, you know, doing research obviously, and I read about the kind of, maybe it was the latest partnership that you announced, uh, with SAB. Yes. You built the, the [00:51:00] branded loyalty card for hemp Chipp, the grocery chain in Sweden. Yeah. Um, and they just got me thinking like.
Josua: Well, what, what is the future of like, this, uh, maybe you called it embedded financial Yeah. Finance. Yep. Um, what does that look like? Are, are retailers and bunch of different other players [00:51:15] gonna start offering these types of services in order to kind of get customer data to create more lock-in? And like, what do you think is gonna happen?
Josua: Is, are we gonna Yeah. Is that gonna, is that gonna be like a thing going forward? Everyone’s gonna start doing offering [00:51:30] cards and similar services.
Monika: I think the cards is more about a way to pay and as long as you need to pay for something you’re buying, you’re gonna need a way to pay for it. And, uh, from my perspective, what we are focusing is on where good [00:51:45] some people move because their payments needs to go and it’s not as, uh.
Monika: Subject to the turmoil in the world. So if we think about hen she, I do think that one of the key learnings was that I was part of [00:52:00] building s bank in S group. So S group is the biggest merchant chain in Finland. They have 43% market share. They have everything from funeral, parlous, hotels, gas stations.
Monika: Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, [00:52:15] restaurants, food stores.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: So if you take that and then you think about what is the most successful loyalty program in Finland, that’s the s groups loyalty program. And what they have been able to do is [00:52:30] exactly what we can see is happening more and more so, so giving that individual human being value so that they will choose that payment method to get that service.
Monika: And we can see that in increasing now, in, [00:52:45] in mobility, for example. So. People who are like building e energy charging stations, they wanna issue cards because they want their energy station, of course, to, to the customers to be able to pay with any card. But if you [00:53:00] pay with their own card, they get better data, they can build loyalty, they can issue credit, et cetera, et cetera.
Monika: So yes, I do think the card payments will grow. Uh, and uh, I think it’s a good thing because [00:53:15] as long as we pay with cash, that’s a problem. Because cash, just from its physical period, it is very dirty. But in the end of the day, you can’t track it. So a lot of bad stuff is done with cash. So, [00:53:30] uh, yeah, we can see definitely play players like mha, uh, type of programs, uh, becoming more and more.
Monika: I think that’s a good thing.
Josua: Just on topic of cash, [00:53:45] what’s the percentage like, you know, off the top of your head, kind of like in Finland, in Europe, is it still a significant portion? Portion of like
Monika: Yes. In Europe? Yes. In Europe, yeah. I don’t think in, in the Nordics we are much closer to, I wouldn’t say cash less, but less cash [00:54:00] society.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: Uh, but uh, yeah, but definitely soon as you go to Europe, it’s much more cash still. It’s a culture. It’s, it’s, it’s the infrastructure. And also in Europe there’s a lot of people who, who don’t have banking, [00:54:15] they are like non-banks still. A lot, lot of people have a hard time getting, yeah. Even though we have this, uh, payment account directive in Europe that you need to, if you are European citizens, a bank needs to give you, uh, account, [00:54:30] but then to actually give them the card to the account and then remember.
Monika: There’s a lot of workers in Europe that are non-European.
Josua: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Monika: They are often outside of the financial, uh, system, and that’s a bad thing.
Josua: Yeah. Yeah. [00:54:45] Uh, interesting. Uh, so we’re almost out of time. Yes. I ask one final question for you here. Um, you mentioned we’re, you know, well now we’re in, we’re recording this in the beginning of April.
Josua: You mentioned already in, in Mar in February. You were like, this is, this is a horrible year. But so like [00:55:00] where you are right now with, with, with NFU and where the market is, like what are the things that you’re most excited about and maybe what are the things that you’re kind of most concerned or worried about?
Monika: Yeah. I think the reason why I’m coming out of the flu is exactly. ’cause, uh, the, the [00:55:15] beginning of the year was horrible, but, but now I’m, I’m really excited. And hence when you’re excited, the stress level goes down, the cortisol goes down, the immune kicks in. Mm-hmm. And, and that, that’s when you get sick. So, so don’t, don’t have less stress.
Monika: It’s not good for you. [00:55:30] Uh, I’m excited about. A lot of things. I, I think as a company, we are finally in a position where when we come out with the customers that we’ve been working with now for the past [00:55:45] six, eight months, it’s going to showcase that there is a shift. And that’s why I, like, for us, what has happened is that as we go for the bigger players, the, the lead times takes longer.
Monika: Mm-hmm.
Josua: Mm-hmm.
Monika: Which means [00:56:00] that I pretty well know what this year will look like, so the only thing we need to do is not to fuck it up. So, so that’s my biggest concern, like, let’s not fuck this up. Of course, from a geopolitical perspective, the world is [00:56:15] in on fire. I, I think that’s one of the key, uh, challenges and, and what we, we try to to be somehow is this, uh, beacon of hope.
Monika: I mean, like, we can’t give up. We can’t give up. And like [00:56:30] I have four children, like for fuck’s sake. This ha like somewhere something better has to come out of it. Us humans can’t be this stupid that we tolerate this way of being where [00:56:45] people, it’s okay to lie, behave, bad, have war. It’s, it’s insane. Like less men, more women into power and less like, give me a woman who started a war.
Monika: Like, seriously. Anyway, [00:57:00] so, so that’s what we are looking for, to, to bring some change in the world and really onboarding players that by their services makes a better impact. That’s what I’m excited. And of course, go going for the, for me now, the [00:57:15] focusing on the 250 million, so. 250 million in annual recurring revenue.
Monika: That’s my n next milestone in my head. So fuck the a hundred and we are at 20, so we need to like speed it up. [00:57:30]
Josua: But, you know, with exponential growth, I mean, that’s gonna
Monika: Yeah, yeah, no, like, I like have a personal target that we are gonna hit 10 billion. 10 billion and it’s not that hard if we get to a hundred percent growth and we systematically do it for X years.
Monika: It’s [00:57:45] just math.
Josua: IIII love that because that’s one thing that, that kind of stood out, um, as I was doing research and looking at your website and, and one of your values is excellence. Yes. And, you know, I think what you embody and then as a result of that, what infuse, embodies is really this [00:58:00] pursuit of excellence, which is not very common in Finland.
Josua: And that is, you know, that that means like have, setting really ambitious targets, vocalizing them publicly, committing yourself to it, which is very uncommon in Finland. And it’s something that we need more of. Yeah.
Monika: And that’s the [00:58:15] cultural thing. Yes. Because that’s the thing that like. If I do, I have had it since, I don’t know how, how young, but like reach for the moon and you might get to the stars or whatever, or clouds or whatever.
Monika: But in the end set that [00:58:30] really big ass ambitious goal because what happens when you have small goals is you make small decisions and you need to make big decisions. So you need to take some, call it risk, but, [00:58:45] but that’s, that’s life. So I, I do believe in setting, uh, big as goals. And when you talk about it and you, you set yourself up for ridicule, like, ha ha ha, [00:59:00] you won’t give up.
Monika: ’cause you’re like, fuck you, I’m not giving up. Like that’s like, so, so 10 billion, like you need to have a number that like really. Uh, make sense because it’s not about reaching it.
Josua: Yeah.
Monika: It’s about never giving up and [00:59:15] doing it better. So yeah, I, I really hope that if something I can, uh, give to my own children is the value of hard work and who wants to be mediocre, that’s fucking boring.
Monika: [00:59:30] Mediocrity on average, boring.
Josua: I hope we get more of, of that kind of attitude of like pursuing excellence. So, um, I really, I wish you and the team best of luck. Thank you so much. I hope you guys succeed. Thank you. Uh, I’m sure you will. Um, and, uh, and, uh, it’s gonna be really exciting to follow you [00:59:45] because like I said, I don’t understand, you know, FinTech, but I, I understand kind of like what it takes to the struggles and, and you know, the, the kind of human side of building a company like that and, and pursuing something excellent.
Josua: And I, I, I respect that. So I thank you. Wish you guys the best of luck.
Monika: Thank you. [01:00:00]
Intro: Thank you for listening. You can find all episodes of the Growth Pod on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts.