Backing deep tech startups that are changing the world

3 takeaways from the conversation with Inka Mero

Commercializing science can be a bigger lever than inventing it

The Nordics are rich in top-tier research, but too few breakthroughs make it to market. That’s the gap Inka set out to solve with Voima Ventures: turning deep science into world-changing businesses. Her team helps researchers think like entrepreneurs—bringing in commercial talent, shaping the go-to-market, and building global companies from lab-born ideas. When it works, the impact is massive: on people, planet, and industry.

The founding team is more important than the technology

Inka has backed over 40 deep tech startups. Her biggest lesson? The best tech won’t matter if the team can’t execute. She looks for founders with strong values, high ambition, and the ability to learn fast. Scientific brilliance is great—but the real differentiator is the mindset to iterate, take feedback, and build something customers actually need. Without that, even the most promising invention won’t scale.

Europe won’t win by copying the Valley. It needs its own playbook

Inka is bullish on the Nordics and Baltics. We have deep research, strong universities, and a growing pool of mission-driven founders. But we can’t outspend or outscale the US and China. Instead, our edge lies in focused bets: photonics, energy and semiconductors. With capital still scarce and the stakes high, she argues for picking our battle and backing the breakthroughs where we have real, unfair advantages.

Watch the episode:

Podcast transcript

Josua: Alright, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on and, uh, [00:00:30] welcome to the show.

Inka: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Josua: So, I’d, I’d love to start with just, um, kind of understanding how you came to be co-founder and CEO of VMA Ventures, which is a, a kind of deep deck focused, uh, [00:00:45] venture fund. So if you could explain what is Deep Tech and how did you end up doing, doing Deep Tech As, as the, the first or maybe the only VC focused.

Josua: In Finland focus only on, on deep tech or,

Inka: yeah. And and you already know, um, [00:01:00] we’re focusing in Nordics and Baltics. Yes. So we’re one of the very rare ones that invests purely to science-based startups.

Josua: Hmm. So

Inka: deep tech is a very generat general, uh, fashionable world now in, in the world of startups and, and VCs due to the fact that everyone [00:01:15] has suddenly figured out that, okay, if we want to solve, let’s say, energy crisis or.

Inka: There’s this major AI boom, everyone wants to do deep tech and, and, and this cool stuff, but we’ve defined, uh, deep tech as follows. So we’re [00:01:30] basically talking about innovations that have roots in scientific research. Mm-hmm. And typically this scientific research has. Uh, paved the way for a new technological innovation, which is typically very difficult to commercialize, but [00:01:45] when you succeed in that one, you also end up typically changing the world in a gymnastic, drastic way.

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: So they can be. Particularly very disruptive. And this is not only the area of software or, or ai. We’re talking about [00:02:00] biotech, energy, food, um, anything relating to our health as well as of course, let’s say new materials, quantum based computing, next generation process, chip architectures and so forth.

Inka: So deep tech, [00:02:15] the way I like to explain it to my mother is that it’s on not only, uh. Uh, bits and bytes. It’s also like real stuff. So typically there’s a hardware or product related innovation combined with software, which makes it quite, quite [00:02:30] difficult to take to the market.

Josua: That must be very interesting because one of the things I, I found like there was a disconnect between how I.

Josua: VCs. I mean, think like American VCs used to talk about what they’re doing, like founding backing entrepreneurs who are changing the world. And then you look at the portfolio and it’s just [00:02:45] like MarTech and a lot of sauce and a lot of like apps and things that, in my view are not changing the world, at least not for the better, but so it must be very exciting to work with.

Josua: I mean, some of the technologies you mentioned are like. Potentially revolutionary, right?

Inka: Mm-hmm.

Josua: [00:03:00] Um, for society.

Inka: Absolutely. And, and our mission is really to scale solutions for the people, planet, and industry. Mm-hmm. Which means that these innovations tend to solve major, uh, problems we have with the Asian society or Chronicle illnesses, [00:03:15] or even democratizing the, the health.

Inka: Care system. It’s not fully accessible for everyone today or, uh, for the planet. Meaning that we sustain resources with new materials or we completely disrupt the traditional means of [00:03:30] producing or storing energy, or we provide a new ways of, of mobility or, uh. Uh, sort of a use space tech in order to predict what’s actually happening on earth, uh, or industries which obviously [00:03:45] have to transform to planetary and balance.

Inka: So we’ve built our thesis around these major global problems, um, and we believe that this can be the highest value generating opportunities during the next 10 years. So it’s nothing like, you know, uh, [00:04:00] Hi-Fi, uh, science fiction that we’re focusing into companies. That would be reality in 50 years. But at the same time, this purposefulness is super important.

Inka: We’re living in, in the Nordic countries, which has probably the most difficult, and Finland [00:04:15] particular, the most difficult demographic structure in the whole Europe. Really? Wow. So really highly aging population. And very little, uh, birth in the society and very little immigrant flow as we know, particularly in Finland.

Inka: So we need to also [00:04:30] attract the best talent to these companies and typically nowadays the best talent works in the companies that want to grow, but also are purposeful. So. Most of the state tech companies tick the boxes in, in, in both [00:04:45] senses.

Josua: Okay. So there’s a lot of the talent wanting to work for these types of companies.

Josua: Mm. Um, it’s maybe we gotten more common and popular for like people who are involved in research to now also become involved with startups. Mm. And there’s lots of tools and we help Yeah. [00:05:00] People working to help facilitate that kind transition. Is, is the main like bottleneck capital or what’s the. What’s the kind of bottleneck do you see for taking like all this knowledge and, and commercializing into like really.

Josua: Revolutionary products and services.

Inka: Well, you asked [00:05:15] about this question about founding momentum. Yeah, so we launched the fund in 2019 and that was our first fund that we call that fund number two. It was 45 million with a 50 million top-up fund. And we were really the first ever fund in the Nordics to invest into [00:05:30] science spinouts from universities, also other deep tech companies with scientific foundation from pre-seed, seed to early A rounds.

Inka: So these early. Uh, seed stage companies. Um, but the variation tends to be the technology readiness level, [00:05:45] what these companies have. And at the point of time when I looked at the macros, um, already in US and China, the share of deep tech investments within the venture asset class. Category was between 35 to 40%.

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: In Europe, it was around 20, [00:06:00] 25%. So Europe has been lagging behind here. That’s why there’s a big momentum around it now. But in the Scandinavian, Nordics and Finland, it was roughly 15%.

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: And at the same time, we have one of the best university systems in the world. We do a lot of basic [00:06:15] and applied research.

Inka: We have the highest per capita number of engineers, really high number of unicorn startups, a lot of growth, momentum, entrepreneurial talent, growing in the universities and all of that. So you look at the mega trends that, okay, massive amount of problems to be [00:06:30] solved. Big momentum around startups and a lot of these technologies nurturing in the, in the research institutions, there was just wasn’t nobody sort of taking them out in the same mechanism.

Inka: These, uh, software, uh, companies like Vaults [00:06:45] and, and gaming startups like Supercell have been grown or Spotifys of the world and for me. I have close to 30 years in tech. Uh, through through my career. I’ve been an investor and a founder in, you know, more than seven startups and I’ve been a CEO and head of product and head of [00:07:00] marketing and sales.

Inka: And even during my investment angel investment journey before volume of ventures, uh, I invested more or less to anything that sort of a grows and is interesting. But at the end of the day, it’s been a lot of unnecessary. [00:07:15] Crap. If you think about it, uh, we have only certain amount of time to preserve the planet.

Inka: We need to make this world meaningful for our children as well. So finally, I got to do something really meaningful and the story [00:07:30] goes like this. Um, I got a phone call from BTT, the National Technology Research Center, Finland. They had been spinning out deep tech companies already for the last 15 years, but they were just very passive owner.

Inka: They span the companies out, invested a bit. If there was a lead [00:07:45] investor and they were sort of a. Left alone. So some of the companies did well, some of them didn’t, and they felt that, okay, a new deep tech VC fund is needed in Finland major mainly to fund their own spinoffs. And I got a [00:08:00] call and, and request could I help them to set this fund up?

Inka: And I said, look, hell no. Um, I had been trying to build my own venture fund earlier. Uh, anyone who is in this industry knows that it’s extremely difficult journey to build a new venture capital fund. Mm-hmm. [00:08:15] Um, ins investors in these funds are, uh, pension funds, institutional investors, family offices, uh, national players like Tessie and others in, in each similar country.

Inka: And they tend to be very conservative. They look at a team [00:08:30] and they consider that, would I invest to their fund? The fund lifetime is 10 years. Uh, or additional years on top of it. Has this team really done it before? And I’ve been part of these journeys before, and most often the answer is no, because you don’t have the history of venture [00:08:45] reinvestments and you sort of can’t have it, uh, before you have a fund.

Inka: So it’s a bit of a chicken and an egg. At the same time, this multi-hundred trillion dollar industry, only 2% of capital is managed by women founded funds or female [00:09:00] women led funds. So there is a unconscious bias in the industry as well. I’ve never let that bother myself, but I. My first reaction was like, okay, to whom would I sell this?

Inka: You know, which investor would really be willing to take the leap? But then I look at the [00:09:15] macro numbers and I saw that really this unhidden potential, and also we built a completely new strategy and all of that, we took into account many different aspects and the main. Important thing was to say that, okay, this is not the Vtt tide fund.

Inka: Mm-hmm. [00:09:30] Where instead of we are building a functioning deep tech ecosystem to the Nordics, all the other co-investors are willing to join along. Everyone can invest to their spinoffs, like into any other university spinoffs and so forth. And, and you spoke about this, [00:09:45] uh, great entrepreneurial team. So this was from the beginning part of the thesis we said that.

Inka: Yes, we have our view on the technologies view of the mega trends view. Where we want to go into is it, for example, hydrogen, not necessarily the full stack, but maybe some [00:10:00] value adding components. But there always has to be a great entrepreneur and if the science team coming to us wanting to found a company or building their company doesn’t have that great entrepreneur will bring that to the company.

Inka: Mm. Because what these [00:10:15] companies tend to lack is a commercialization capability. Mm. And that, that growth mindset, that quick iteration, customer centricity, value adding, uh, sales building this sort of a bigger solution for customers instead of just tiny innovation [00:10:30] where they think like, okay, this one.

Inka: Tiny bit or innovation is enough, and you don’t do that if you want to grow a half a billion or a billion worth company.

Josua: No. Um, so if the entrepreneur team and the the founder is kind of key, um, [00:10:45] do you typically find that you’re able to take people with a really deep technical science background and turn them into these entrepreneurs?

Josua: Or do you have to have combination where you combine like someone with the commercial expertise and mindset with a science back team [00:11:00] and, and just in general. You know, given that you’ve been involved with this a number of years, has there been any big shifts in what you look for? Mm-hmm. When you consider, you evaluate lots of companies, lots of different teams, what do you look for?

Josua: How much of it is like pattern [00:11:15] recognition, gut feel, versus like objective and uh, or like qu quantitative analysis?

Inka: Mm-hmm. I think it’s a bit of both. So I would say like best teams science background. Women or men, um, [00:11:30] with researcher background and strong scientific knowledge, let it be, for example, biotech.

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: Building some sort of a next generation persistent therapy platform, whether that’s for example, on stem cells or something.

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: They can grow to become great entrepreneurs.

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: So [00:11:45] many of these. Uh, individuals and teams, they’re so smart that if they expose themselves to this rapid development of a startup and they take the investor feedback and they have good advisors and, and this growth mentality, they grow to [00:12:00] become great entrepreneurs.

Inka: Then at the same time, I’m a a, not an a scientist. Uh, myself or I’m not even an engineer. I’ve, I’ve studied economics in, in, in university, way back. Um, but I would be [00:12:15] always very curious on technology. So, super interested how it works. What can it po possibly do? Uh, what is the competition? What is, what is it based on?

Inka: So I always say like, it’s not rocket science. Even I can be a, a chairperson of a, a space company. [00:12:30]

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: I’m saying like it comes with both ingredients, so you need to have commercially mindseted people who are very interested on customer. And market opportunities and are capable of translating those needs and requirements to, to the [00:12:45] tech development.

Inka: And then you need to have a tech team who is very customer oriented. So those tend to be the ingredients. The reason why investors talk a lot about serial entrepreneurs is that there’s just very few of these outlier individuals who [00:13:00] really succeed. With their first company, typically you do a lot of mistakes.

Inka: It’s tough to hire a good person. It’s even tougher to fire a bad person. It’s tough to raise capital, but it’s even tougher to grow the company, to get revenues, [00:13:15] all of this. So, um, having a one serial entrepreneur in the team always is a plus. So that’s definitely a learning what we’ve, uh, gained throughout the years.

Inka: So we’re currently, uh, building our fund number three. So we’re. We’re [00:13:30] roughly at 110 million and, and we closed that fund and we’re actively investing from there. And you asked about our learnings and thesis. So we have three areas we invest into green transformation for future planet balance, uh, exponential health [00:13:45] solutions.

Inka: We call that for polarized societies. We do everything but drug development. Mm-hmm. So precision therapies, medical tech, uh, even health tech, but with scientific foundation and, and, and scalable technology, digital components. And third category, what, [00:14:00] what we call us game changers. And it’s a tough category ’cause it’s difficult to say what the game changer is.

Inka: It’s quite broad. Yeah. Yeah. Typically we know afterwards what was a game changer. Maybe Tesla was a game changer ’cause it changed the whole industry to electric vehicles or [00:14:15] maybe even oddly was a game changer of its time. ’cause it brought this vegan based sort of a, uh, o based milk to the markets and consumer.

Inka: Was able to create consumer pull and push many other players and the whole industry to new direction. But, uh, we, we look at in the [00:14:30] game changer category, we talk about semiconductors, optics, photonics, quantum technologies, AI platforms. Uh. Platform technologies that can provide frog leaves to whole industries, even space tech.

Josua: Hmm. [00:14:45] Is there any, you mentioned a lot of different areas. Is there any one of them where we in the Nordics or or Baltic countries have a kind of unfair or natural competitive advantage? I’m thinking, like you mentioned, US and China have been investing. Not just more in [00:15:00] percentage, but in absolute like dollars and euros, like way more than us.

Josua: Mm-hmm. And they have probably have some advantages. So is there any kind of place, specific area or industry where, where it would make sense for companies here to focus on when it comes to deep tech?

Inka: Yeah. You need to focus ’cause we’re [00:15:15] small and nimble. Uh, opportunity. A market in the Nordics and Baltics.

Inka: Yes. Whereas roughly the size of Bay Area.

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: The amount of venture capital investments last year was in this domain, uh, 6.4 billion euros. Uh, in the [00:15:30] peak year in 2019, it was roughly 19 billions.

Josua: Hmm.

Inka: So what scarcity capital is scarcity. Absolutely. Particularly capital for this early stage grow, uh, frog leap growing where you don’t yet have full proof [00:15:45] of the business.

Josua: Hmm.

Inka: Like in software company you might say that Okay, there’s a proof of business, you know, the product is working. Customers like it. The team knows that if they put five euros to a marketing, they always get like 50 back over time from the customer. So that’s. Called, you know, [00:16:00] repeatable business model and, and you know that, okay, if we invest more, we can actually grow this business in tip tech.

Inka: It’s rarely like that. You’ve developed a quantum processor chip and you’ve proven that you can take it from one qubit to six qubits to 10 to a hundred [00:16:15] qubits, but still the whole ecosystem is there yet to be, uh, grown. So this growth capital is definitely needed. Um, so coming back to, um. The strengths of the ecosystem, it’s typically the area where the [00:16:30] research is the leading of its kind in the world.

Inka: This tends to be in the areas where we already have big companies, so material sciences, that’s the heritage of our pulp and paper industry. Um, of course chemical [00:16:45] and process industry. Uh, they tend to be process industry innovations, but there are a lot of companies working with, like, for example, food innovations or bio-refinery or sort a next generation products, which are bio-based.

Inka: Um, other areas, [00:17:00] optics and photonics. Highest per capita amount of patent in the world, in the area of photonics in Finland, in the world. Yeah, a lot of, so there’s all these companies from A-R-V-E-R, Rios and, and other [00:17:15] sort of a, and that’s of course a big heritage of Nokia ecosystem microelectronics. So that all goes to mems, uh, uh, semiconductors, all of that.

Inka: So that’s a big opportunity. And then on this region, I would say, of [00:17:30] course, nor nor Norway is shining with energy in related innovations. Uh, there’s lot, lot of subsidies for that and those tend to be very capital heavy. And then Denmark with pharma, ’cause Novo is creating a massive halo. [00:17:45] Estonia, uh, or Baltic countries very strong with AI and scaling, uh, digital innovations in Sweden, a bit of everything.

Inka: Uh, very big market as well. So each of these countries have a, has have a bit of a different strengths, [00:18:00] strong sort of a stronghold, but at the same time, all of them. Need more capital, they need more access to global markets. They all, um, have certain challenges and, and they’re really understanding [00:18:15] which ones to choose and which ones to go with.

Inka: It’s, uh, I would sort of as like one, uh, rule is that you go with the best with their sort of a technological innovation. Combined with this commercial talent,

Josua: that’s a great [00:18:30] kind of overview of the different strengths that we have in the different markets. And it, um, certainly to me as a, as a lay person, it’s not something I really consider.

Josua: I mean, sometimes you read about Isci or like IQM and all these companies and you’re like, whoa, I wonder where did that come from? Um, [00:18:45] somewhere in, like in you, you, you understand that, but you don’t necessarily understand like why it is that all of a sudden a Finnish company is like world leading in this.

Josua: Specific, uh, field, but so you then you meet a lot of different, different companies, [00:19:00] probably a lot of them at quite early stages. Valuations is, is always, I, I’m guessing a really tricky thing when it comes to startups and when you have deep tech company that’s like, you know, the product, I mean, the ecosystem is not there.

Josua: The market isn’t there. The product may be years, years, [00:19:15] years ahead or like away. So how does it, and so how do you approach valuation and how do you even figure out if. If it’s just hot air, if it’s just sci-fi that they’re like, you know, you probably hear a lot of, very kind of high flying, [00:19:30] you know, technologies that potentially could be really revolutionary.

Josua: But how do you go about doing the due diligence to figure out if this, if this is something real, because I’m thinking like it’s, it’s on the cutting edge. Like there’s, you know, who, who’s gonna be able to validate whether or not this [00:19:45] team. Is it doing something real or, because they’re the only ones in the world who are doing it.

Inka: Mm.

Josua: So how do you approach those two, like due diligence and valuation when it comes to deep tech startups?

Inka: Let’s start with valuations. Mm. Uh, it’s quite simple math. At the end of the day, uh, we have [00:20:00] roughly 110 million fund. Mm-hmm. We’re going to do around 25 investments from the fund, uh, to 25 companies.

Inka: Initial ticket is around 1.5 to 3 million euros. Then of course, typically this is not the only [00:20:15] capital that the companies tend to take. At the same time, they might have other investors. We often have, uh, other deep tech funds investing together with us. There might be business Finland supporting in r and d or a local governmental agency in Sweden or or Denmark.

Inka: And with the [00:20:30] total funding, that company tends to have a runway of something like two years. And with these two years, you need to reach certain milestones where we as an investors believe that the next funding round will be raised, there will be a valuation, which should be like [00:20:45] two to three x from the start valuation.

Inka: Mm-hmm. And this math sort of goes on and goes on from, you know, prese to C to early to a. BC. And at some point of time there is an exit and we of course look at the [00:21:00] market opportunity. We look at the value add that the company can bring, the pursued business model, and we start calculating, let’s say a little bit back.

Inka: Like, okay, let’s assume that this company would be worth a billion. What would it require? What would be the hard commercial metrics for it? [00:21:15] What kind of revenue? What kind of customers? What kind of market share, what kind of offering? What has to happen? And you start to look like future back. This valuation.

Inka: Wow. This is the way we look at it. And then we think like, firstly, is this, is it reachable? With [00:21:30] what tiny thing, seed, what they have, what is the ambition level of the founders? And that’s one way to look at valuation. Is it too much or too little? And then of course, the other way is this benchmark. Uh, you have a lot of, uh, databases you can follow on, you know, the [00:21:45] valuation developments.

Inka: You talk to your peers, and we of course, see a lot of the valuation. So typically in the pre seed seed stage, the valuations tend to be somewhere like between five to 20 million pre-money. And Premo is the valuation before the capital injection. Mm-hmm. So [00:22:00] then you have the capital and all of that and then it tends to sort of a grow from there and there you need to be very clear with the value creation ’cause it’s very different value creation journey.

Inka: You mentioned Isai, there were eight years before revenue than there were suddenly 200 million in [00:22:15] revenue. So journey of a deep tech company is very different to software company, um, on the due diligence. Um, we do that top down and bottom up. So let’s take example of, um, [00:22:30] healthcare investment, what we just recently lead.

Inka: So, uh, I’m turning to 50. So I’ve been going through this personal journey of, uh. Peri menopause and, and menopause sort of a, uh, journey during the last five [00:22:45] years. And, uh, of course as a science geek and a a bit of a life hacker, you sort of see that there’s nothing there for women in the market. So we started to work on our own investment thesis that we look at the market, we looked at the scientifical innovations, we [00:23:00] looked at the startups out there.

Inka: We started to look like what could really interest us. What could we be in the bigger scale looking for what could really be a great unicorn opportunity? And then at the same time, we started to bottom up look for companies and we found one, [00:23:15] uh, we haven’t announced it yet, but they have a home test for estrogen, progesterone, and FSH.

Inka: And on the science part, we did a. Validation with experts. One of our team members is a, uh, molecular art biologist. [00:23:30] I’ve developed letter of load tests in my background. We interviewed the scientist. We looked at what kind of a scientific, uh, collaboration they have ongoing and okay. It’s a pretty good tick on the box if you’re working with the Stanfords and hard hardwar and others of the world.

Inka: So the [00:23:45] scientific validation typically on the due diligence side comes from the. Team’s ability to communicate to us, what have they done, how was the research done, who are the top professors involved, that that’s the way to do that. Then if you’re dealing with [00:24:00] something really hard, like a CPU architecture or something like that, so really hardware centric or semiconductor space, you need to find a specialist who helps you.

Inka: But typically we agree on the high level investment terms first, and then we go on with a more deeper study. We understand this [00:24:15] dome quite a lot, and hey, look, we have. Now over 40 portfolio companies in three mm, these three funds. So we always know someone.

Josua: Mm.

Inka: Who knows the space helps. Mm-hmm.

Josua: That, that’s really, really interesting.

Josua: [00:24:30] So, so basically going back to kind what you mentioned about valuation, you’re able to reverse engineer and map out, uh, the entire journey from like, to, to very, very. High valuations. Um, I’m guessing this is like knowledge. Um, sorry. So go ahead.

Inka: So you sort of, I need to do that. ’cause typically [00:24:45] you allocate from VC fund, you allocate around 20 to 30% to initial investments.

Josua: Hmm.

Inka: So all of that capital left. Like in our fund, roughly like 85 million mm is left for follows. Yes. So you need to plan [00:25:00] this value creation journey and how, where are you going to bet and typically not all the companies get all the funding. It’s like the best companies tend to get the highest amount of capital.

Josua: Yeah. Which may makes sense given the power law distribution of, of these VC firms. So, [00:25:15] um, given that you’re doing this, I’m guessing if you, do you get involved like really early, like pre-seed or,

Inka: yeah, we do. Yeah. So roughly I would say like, uh, 10 to 15 investments from our current fund will be on this pre-seed, seed stage.

Inka: We [00:25:30] call that sort of a initial phase. So. We would invest roughly a million to 1.5, and then the remaining 10 ish are between three to 5 million as initial tickets.

Josua: Yeah. Uh, so I’m guessing like the, the [00:25:45] teams that you’re meeting then at the early stages, they may be like really deep into tech, but they don’t necessarily understand the market and the, the value creation, all that.

Josua: Mm-hmm. So I’m guessing you’re kind of, as you’re doing the due diligence and valuation yourselves, you’re also helping them. So, so what kind of [00:26:00] role are you as vc. Playing with these, these startups, are you actively helping them with recruitment, with strategy? Do you have board seats in each portfolio company or like what does that look like or does it.

Josua: Depend from case to case.

Inka: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. [00:26:15]

Josua: That was great.

Inka: So, uh, you come to meet with us, obviously the, we, last year we saw more than a thousand cases, uh, fitting our investment thesis. So three is three core domains, our Yeah. Geographic [00:26:30] region and as well as the stage. And. You know, we can’t meet all of them face to face, but that’s what we accumulate to our database.

Inka: But, you know, you would come to meet us, uh, the best way would be to come through a warm introduction. So maybe a business angel who knows me very well, [00:26:45] calls me and say like, look, Inca, you definitely need to meet this team. They’re super good in this one. We will meet you, and most likely you would have a.

Inka: Really good idea or, or great evidence with your lab-based, you know, pilot or something like that. But there would be also [00:27:00] something wrong, totally wrong in the plan. So this is what the job where it really comes. Interesting. So it’s a way to learn to know the team that you might potentially invest into, and you might have to stick with them for the next.

Inka: Seven to 10 [00:27:15] years. So you definitely want to learn, learn, uh, the team, but you would start improving. So you would take one topic at a time, you know, looking at the tech, uh, the added value, the uniqueness, the competition, the tech roadmap. What is needed, who is [00:27:30] needed, all of that. Or like the market, the sub segments of the customer markets, the initial pilots, the people that they’re already talking to, and all of that.

Inka: Hmm. We’re currently investing into one altar university startup, and they have a very unique, uh, uh, innovation [00:27:45] in the era of optics and photonics and Hmm. Um. Yeah, we have, for example, spoken with many of their customers already who are very interested on their solution and supported the team a lot with their go-to market strategy.

Inka: For [00:28:00] example, not necessarily going to, I’ll just give an example to automotive route. ’cause automotive market is so long. It takes a long time. Yes. You might want to go, for example, defense currently ’cause dual use tech has a high momentum and the [00:28:15] customers pay high premium and all of that. It’s very slow moving.

Inka: So you might even even need a third customer segment. Yes. So this is sort of a workshop and we do, at the same time, we map out that, okay, is this really a good founder team? Initially when they came to [00:28:30] us around a year ago, we sort of, they liked the tech, but we didn’t, we felt that the team was missing a serial entrepreneur, really solid CEO.

Inka: Now they have it. So also always the best teams sort of a comeback. Yes. And they say like, okay, we heard you. This is what we have now. And [00:28:45] that’s a great way to test. The test, the team as well. And then of course you go through the commercial plan, like, okay, this is how much you have funding, where it’s gonna take you, where are you gonna be?

Inka: How are you really gonna be there?

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: What are the things that you’re gonna do? And all of that. Mm-hmm. So it’s a [00:29:00] learning, learning journey for, for both parties. And the biggest added value, of course, is that we bring. Lot of credibility.

Josua: Yes.

Inka: So it typically helps the teams to raise more money from really good, solid investors.

Inka: Uh, we introduce them to board members, to potential team [00:29:15] members, to potential customers, and we sort of, I try to, this network obviously effect is something that you try to bring to the teams.

Josua: I’m guessing now, given your kind of track record and, and position, you probably have the best network in doing deep tech in this region.

Josua: So like you’re the obvious. [00:29:30] Go-to investor that some kind of deep tech startup would be looking for.

Inka: Absolutely. We want to be the go-to partner.

Josua: Mm.

Inka: When a deep tech founder is thinking of raising the seed.

Josua: Hmm.

Inka: The first round where they bring in Avis. Yeah. We wanna [00:29:45] be that. We might not always be the one who comes, but we might come on their next round.

Josua: Mm.

Inka: And the big added value, of course, is the size of the fund. We’re very well positioned. A lot of, uh, players out there, they might do a little bit of deep tech, and sometimes people ask [00:30:00] us like, you know, what’s your difference to this and this fund? And I say like, look, we don’t do dog food, so we, so we do.

Inka: It’s okay. That’s a bit nasty way, but we, we like to work with everyone. Um, and then we. Often work very closely with some very [00:30:15] close friends. Like, you know, we have many investments with Lifeline. Yeah. But we also have many investments with Navigar, the Wallenberg family in, in, in, uh, in Sweden, but many others as well.

Inka: Yeah. Uh, so you of course establish [00:30:30] these networks. Um. And you need to build them constantly.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Inka: So it’s big job of mine nowadays. After I’ve done this, uh, never ending fundraising for the fund itself. I’ve, I got some air for a couple of months. I’m like, who? [00:30:45] And then I start again. And then I need to go to this serious A and B investors.

Inka: Yeah. And, and meet them and talk about our portfolio and what do we do and how do we create value? ’cause these are the global investors who then. Are looking into Scandinavia and, and want to find the best [00:31:00] companies.

Josua: So you mentioned that, that we have a lack of a, a growth fund. Mm-hmm. After, you know, a company maybe has been commercialized, like they’re going to market, product, market fit exists, you need a fund that comes in and gives them lots more, I’m, I’m guessing Yeah, like

Inka: 10 million.

Inka: Yeah. Leading investment [00:31:15] ticket.

Josua: So why couldn’t form of venture start like a growth fund? I mean, you see that I’m guessing in the US quite a lot. Mm-hmm. Earlier funds started doing these growth funds to, like you said, they have the best. Companies in the portfolio. Why not double down? Couldn’t, uh,

Inka: yeah, absolutely.

Inka: We could and, and [00:31:30] probably we would do like three,

Josua: 400 million.

Inka: Yeah, exactly. So growth fund, uh, had we started ER venture just like 2008 when I started my seed investment company, I think we would be already with the growth fund. Yeah.

Josua: Yeah.

Inka: But it’s also like you need to stick journey things. You need to show that you can deliver what [00:31:45] you promised to your LPs.

Inka: These are very long lasting, uh, uh, relationships that you bring and build, but nothing hinders us. Within couple of years to do that. I think we missed the one unicorn, you know?

Speaker 6: Hmm.

Inka: Should we have that on the track [00:32:00] record? Let’s see. Should it come? We would be very well positioned to raise a growth fund.

Inka: Of course, it takes a bit of different team talent as well. Yes. So you need to build a bit of this platform that you can run on multiple funds, but also as appealing [00:32:15] could be to raise a specialist fund like a quantum fund or, or something else. So. You really need to time that, right? Yeah. And I think our timing for our third fund was excellent.

Inka: Uh, nobody else had a track record from deep tech investing like us, and then [00:32:30] we had this Nordic Baltic momentum around it. We’ve done dual use for from the day one, so there’s like. All of these small ingredients. And then most important thing, what our LPs told us when they joined along and with this new fund, you know, [00:32:45] we have, uh, KRR and, and Tesi and Swedish Sum Invest and European Investment Fund, but also big institutional players like Norde Life and Ello, major Finnish family offices and all of that.

Inka: They all said that you’d be very consistent [00:33:00] on delivering what you say that you will deliver. And at the, it’s not only about storytelling. You need to have a financial performance and our sort of numbers are starting to be really promising. So

Josua: yeah, I’m guessing that’s like one of the key things I want is that consistency and clarity.

Josua: Yeah. Because then [00:33:15] you, as soon as there’s like a bit of clarity, investors get scared. Um, but I think, I mean, I’m super impressed by what you accomplished in a short period of time. So I’m, I have no doubt that you said it’s just give it a few more years and then Yep. You’ll go. So this is a long

Inka: journey.

Inka: Yeah. So. [00:33:30] Interesting to follow this new fund when it’s at the end of its lifetime. I will be like 61. I remember talking about this investment terms. So, uh, fund legal terms are pretty tough. One for the people [00:33:45] like ourselves who put our their ass on the line. And I remember these Kim and Clause condition.

Inka: Mm-hmm. And there was, at some point of time there was a re requirement that it should be 10 years and only for me. And I was like, Hey, look. I’ll be like, 60. Are you sure? You one of the,

Speaker 5: and

Inka: then eventually it went different way. [00:34:00] But it, it’s so funny, you think like, okay, should I really know what I’m doing in 10 years?

Inka: ’cause I’ve never known. But, uh, I think it’s a journey. You need to believe that, you know, there’s a vision and you stick to the vision.

Josua: Yeah. That’s one thing that people maybe don’t realize about. You know, of course when you start a [00:34:15] company yourself, there’s a big commitment. Mm-hmm. But, but with a fund, there’s really a long time horizon that you’re kind of signing up for.

Inka: Yeah. And it, uh, you know. That’s, that’s a really long way to go and it takes a long time to build [00:34:30] this team that really works. So when we started, we were just, uh, two partners, myself and our former CFO. Um, and, uh, nowadays we’re 13. Hmm. And then of course you need to show for your LPs that this team that I’m building, [00:34:45] we are building, can deliver, we can do great investments.

Inka: They grow in value, they deliver results. The fund one is performing. The one, fund two is growing in value. We’re starting to return the capital. And the fund three has the best, most highest potential deep tech company [00:35:00] investments.

Josua: Yes. Yes.

Inka: So you have to stay quite focused and you need to work with people.

Inka: Who share the same passion, but then at the same time, the whole structure of your operation has to be such that the younger team feels that they can grow in that journey. Yes, yes. That it’s not the classical VC [00:35:15] model where you, where you have this partner pyramid and nobody’s getting through. I’ve always hated that myself, so I didn’t want to build that.

Inka: Hmm.

Josua: Yeah, I don’t think people realize how difficult capital allocation is. Like it’s not a matter when I’ve seen various statistics of like the performance of different PE and [00:35:30] VC funds, and, uh, a lot of them don’t perform that well. Compared to like the, the market. Like it’s not a, it’s not easy just to gather a lot of money and then just invest it.

Josua: Like it’s a very difficult

Inka: Yeah.

Josua: Thing to do. Well,

Inka: exactly. And different funds have different [00:35:45] strategies and of course like when you’re established player mm-hmm. When you’ve done couple of unicorns, so one or two, like if you would be in Atomico or like not so Yes. Or some obviously you have a or EQT.

Inka: You, your referral network of that [00:36:00] inbound deal flow is so strong. And that’s something that you need to build on. So you know that you, you get more quality cases and you can pick and choose and you can, you don’t have to compete ’cause your added value is so high. Um, but then in the early stages, is it this quantum [00:36:15] theme or this quantum theme?

Inka: Very tough thing to say. And that’s where it comes to this gut feeling. Hmm. I think like 30 years of work life experience, you know, I can stare person to the high and I can turn away. I think my master skill here [00:36:30] is, is to understanding what drives people, right? What’s their motivation? And also I can see the dark side in all of the cases, and that’s where my co-founders and, and people I work with always, let’s say hate me.

Inka: Mm-hmm. Because I’m always like, this is a great company, but mm-hmm. And then I’m like, there’s a problem [00:36:45] with this, one of the founders. And, and then people are like, oh, she’s always so negative. And then afterwards they’re like, you were totally right. I’m like, yeah, I have this six sense that I hate. But it’s been really helpful when you learn to trust it.

Inka: ’cause you can also see a lot of [00:37:00] potential and, and you can discover a lot of hidden, hidden potential

Josua: and,

Inka: and nurturing that potential is super important as well.

Josua: How much of of the. Potential or how much of [00:37:15] success or failure comes down to the founding team and their interpersonal relationships or problems or potential versus like the technology or versus the market?

Josua: Like how much of it is just down to the team?

Inka: Mm. I would say [00:37:30] like probably a 70% is the timing. 30% is the theme.

Josua: Okay.

Inka: So. If the timing is right, then of course you tend to get this positive spiral. There’s always like, yeah. These moments that [00:37:45] you feel that the company’s going to bankrupt and, and, and the founders are gonna kill each other, that will come evidently.

Josua: Yeah. But

Inka: if the timing is right, you will have this positive frog leaps that you get a big customer or you succeed, for example, delivering the technology, but also that the market [00:38:00] momentum around that domain grows, like everyone understands now that there’s huge momentum around ai.

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: No brainer, but who had that vision before the momentum was there?

Inka: Yes. So you need to believe as an [00:38:15] investor that you sort of foresee these opportunities and you roll the dice. But then on these founders, I think it boils down to diversity. If they’re all from the same research group with the [00:38:30] same gender, with the same skin color, it’s very unlikely that they will succeed.

Inka: Mm. But if it’s a founder team who has multidisciplinary scientifical background and a commercial talent, strong values, and a really high ambition level, they tend [00:38:45] to figure it out. Mm-hmm. Um, this ambition level is tricky. You ask a founder that, you know, what’s your ambition? They always say like, yeah, I wanna grow this brilliant value company.

Inka: And then the first acquisition offer comes along and they’re like, let’s sell so I can pay my [00:39:00] mortgage. So that’s why also second time entrepreneurs are better. Hopefully they’ve made a bit of money. So they have the patience and they want to show that they can really grow a big company. Um, but also some first time founders are really ambitious.

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: So you just have to [00:39:15] find these people who. Who are willing to, who really want to make a change. It’s really the money that the best founders are looking after. They’re typically looking to fix some sort of a problem that really knocks them.

Josua: Hmm hmm. It’s [00:39:30] like the intellectual challenges, the or part of the,

Inka: yeah, and also part of personality of them with the best founders that they’re never sort of as satisfied.

Inka: There’s like, they fix something and they’re like, okay, but the next thing has to be fixed. And they, they have this sort of built [00:39:45] in drive. To show the world that this thing, what they’re building can, can solve a major problem while not being so stubborn that they never pivot. Best founders, of course, pivot along the way.

Inka: Even deep tech companies, they pivot.

Speaker 5: Yes.

Inka: Uh, so, [00:40:00] so these pivot, changing their direction or offering or market focus or something like that is, is really critical for deep tech companies as well.

Josua: Is there anything you find that is kind of. Underrated or overrated when it comes to like founder or founding [00:40:15] team character characteristics or skill sets.

Josua: When you think about how, you know, what’s talked about in like a, kind of like the startup community, anything you kind of disagree with that is

Inka: Yeah. Massively this, uh, Silicon Valley classic, [00:40:30] um, a school book example of a founder never exists in Nordics. Mm-hmm. And, and what we have here is as good as well.

Inka: So I’m saying like we should build our own serial entrepreneur, uh, [00:40:45] culture. And I think, for example, Finnish startup community is doing a great job there. You know, getting the founders together, getting the CTOs together, CMOs together, and sharing this peer example, how to build really ambitious companies.

Inka: Um, but same [00:41:00] in the Nordic scale. So my experience that the best founders are never the easiest ones.

Josua: Easiest in what way? Yeah.

Inka: Sort of a. You know, it’s not that smooth.

Josua: Yes. Yeah, it’s

Inka: tough.

Josua: Yeah. Yeah.

Inka: It’s tough choices. But the best [00:41:15] founders are open. They share, uh, they listen, but they also draw their own conclusions.

Inka: Mm. They come back to you by saying like, Hey, we’re having a problem with this and this topic. Mm-hmm. This is how we’re planning to solve it. What’s your take on it? Mm-hmm. So they [00:41:30] very quickly, they don’t wait for a month for, for a good board meeting. Mm-hmm. So they’re, they’re constantly on it. So clock speed.

Inka: Definitely. And then this, what I like about Silicon Valley entrepreneurship is so, of course very opportunity driven. So [00:41:45] people are very positive Yeah. And they see the growth opportunities, whereas the Nordic might be a bit more skeptical and, and pessimistic and all of that. Mm-hmm. You need that optimism as, as, as well.

Inka: Mm-hmm. But many of the data tech companies, they work with specific [00:42:00] industries, whether that’s energy or automotive or like pharma. Mm-hmm. You also need to understand that industry. Mm-hmm. You cannot, of course, sometimes change the whole industry, but sometimes you need to play with the ecosystem. So understanding that is really critical as well.

Josua: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I can imagine we [00:42:15] were, when you’re working with those types of people, they, um, there’s a reason why. It takes a level of brilliance and it takes a level of self-confidence to go out and like approach, take on this big problem with a novel solution to believe that you [00:42:30] can do that. I mean, it takes a certain person to do that, so they’re not gonna necessarily, I mean, guessing always be the most agreeable, um, people to work with and they’re gonna be probably quite independent.

Josua: Um, first principles, thinkers and all that. So. [00:42:45] Probably makes for some, you, you probably have a quite interesting, interesting job. I mean, not just from the tech side, but just dealing with people who are like, I, I at least find it like when people are, are, are very strong in the beliefs and good at articulating them.

Josua: You get like [00:43:00] these, you know, debates and discussions that it’s very interesting.

Inka: Mm-hmm. Best part in my work is to work with the CEOs. Mm-hmm. I’ve been a CEO, EO myself. I know what a lonely job it is. Yes. You need to have this trust relationship with your [00:43:15] investors and best CEOs can, can really exploit that.

Inka: Mm-hmm. But. This extrovert part is interesting ’cause it might be that you’re good on stage and you’re good in telling a story, but you’re not at all good in building a [00:43:30] company.

Josua: Yes.

Inka: So actually I sort of, I like these introvert CEOs as well.

Josua: Hmm.

Inka: They tend to be a bit better. Listeners. Listeners. And we need to remember that it’s actually introverts who have eventually changed the world, not the extroverts.

Josua: Yeah.

Inka: There’s just, you know, so many of us [00:43:45] who. Blah, blah, blah. But then eventually you need to have a bit of both probably and, and best introverts can sort of learn to become good social. Uh, extroverts, I guess is the right word, but just saying [00:44:00] that of course, you need to be inspiring and good in storytelling and uh, but also there’s so many other things as well in leadership, in my opinion

Josua: for sure.

Josua: And I think people maybe I. Underestimate how, what a big factor, [00:44:15] credibility, track record, and just that kind of like belief plays a role in, in storytelling and charisma. Like even if you’re not the most, you know, rich rhetorically, like

Inka: the

Josua: best, the best. But I mean, there’s tons of examples of these entrepreneur, CEO leaders, [00:44:30] um, who have been extraordinarily effective at attracting talent, attracting capital, even just by being like, they have that focus, they have that like determination.

Josua: Mm-hmm. And that belief, and it just, it, it’s very kind of magnetic.

Inka: Mm-hmm. [00:44:45] But I, I, I guess it all boils down to values. What do you have as a, as a, you know, as a founder, what kind of company you’re building?

Josua: Yeah.

Inka: And typically in the beginning when you do the things right, that doing right. Carries you through.

Inka: Mm-hmm. [00:45:00] Also the hurdles, but if you start fixing, the value is only at the point of time when the problems arrive. It’s, it’s a bit too late.

Josua: Yes, yes. Um, we’re almost, we, we kind of coming up on, on our, um, running out. We’re on time out on time [00:45:15] here, so I, I wanna ask you a couple of quick fire questions. Okay.

Josua: And then we have a surprise there, Dan. Okay. Yeah. You ready? Um, okay. So number one, what’s been the most rewarding and most challenging moment for you so far at, uh, at your kind of [00:45:30] venture, uh, VO ventures? Or you can pick either one of those.

Inka: Yeah, I. I think my rewarding, most rewarding, uh, uh, moment has been when I, and is when I’m working with my team.

Speaker 5: Hmm.

Inka: I’m so [00:45:45] proud of the whole team that, you know, where they’ve grown into and now instead of, you know, being a sort of a venture fund with a tiny team and, and all of that, we’re, we’ve grown into whole Scandinavia and, and we all drive our. Particular [00:46:00] field. So I’m really proud of what we’ve accomplished.

Inka: So this is, you know, my proud moment isn’t an exit or like, you know, this is how much money we have, but it’s really that we have this group of people within our one venture team who really wants to, uh, be on this [00:46:15] journey and they’re super committed and, and, uh, we have fantastic trust in the team. So that’s my proud moment.

Josua: That’s a great answer.

Inka: Yeah. And then my most challenging struggle. [00:46:30] I think it relates to one of our portfolio companies, which has been like, you know, this huge, um, promise from the start and I just can’t disclose it here. But it’s been a sort of a, something that we’ve seen, [00:46:45] you know, had couple of major exits on the way and we, I spent a lot of time work on, on that company and, um.

Inka: Still these hard times of war and inflation and [00:47:00] difficulties of raising capital and delays in various industries and all of that, you know, have taken their toll and, and you know, it’s not, I just see the hardship of the founder.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Inka: And, and, uh, entrepreneurship is really hard.

Speaker 5: [00:47:15] Yeah.

Inka: And, and, uh. I’ve been thinking about this entrepreneur a lot, uh, during the couple of couple of weeks and I’ve been there myself, uh, before founding even my seed investments and ev everything.

Inka: [00:47:30] So I’ve done, you know, one background myself and it’s, it’s really tough. This company’s not doing bankruptcy, but there’s been a massive toll yes on the founder, and that’s of course something that I wouldn’t want to see to happen.

Josua: [00:47:45] Yeah. That’s very, very understandable. Um, do you have any favorite kind of contrarian beliefs about business or startups or investing, like things you believe that most of your peers would kind of disagree with?

Inka: [00:48:00] Ah, would disagree with?

Josua: Yeah.

Inka: I don’t know whether they would disagree with, but, uh, um, I’ll, I’ll give you my, my, my 2 cents. Um. Okay, first one is that you work with people who [00:48:15] have really high ambition level, but that’s not enough. They have to have right values. If they don’t have the right values, it will go to shit.

Inka: At the end of the day, you know, they’ll do something wrong. They’ll choose wrong on the way and wrong person to work to [00:48:30] run the sales, or they take money from the wrong investors, or they, uh, uh, make a compromise on the value generation for the company. Wrong values is a red flag. And then of course, like having right values, [00:48:45] of course, like with the employee, as an employee, uh, for, for employees and all of that is important.

Inka: Mm-hmm. Mm. Other thing is that, uh, you know, I, I, I have, you know, the luxury. That I’ve, you know, worked for such a [00:49:00] long time. I don’t have to anymore work with assholes. So there are a lot of jerks in this business as well, like in any business. So, um, if, you know, the only thing what you have in this business is your reputation, [00:49:15] sometimes you have to make compromises for, for the sake of that you sort of a.

Inka: Uh, not to retain you never compromise on integrity, but you might have to compromise on other things, even though it would feel, feel [00:49:30] tough. But reputation is all you have, and that always applies to you as an entrepreneur or a founder or investor or whomever, partner, and sometimes maybe younger people forget that, that mm-hmm.

Inka: You know, we’ve been here for a long time and we’re [00:49:45] gonna be here still for a very long time. So it’s, it’s worthy to take a note.

Josua: I don’t,

Inka: did I answers answer the question? Yes.

Josua: Yes. It was perfect. Um, values and, and reputation. I think those are really good and. I think when you’re younger, especially, you don’t realize how [00:50:00] small the C circles are.

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Josua: Like if whatever industry, you know, it’s marketing or like deep tech or or whatever area of industrial manufacturing, like very small circles. So the people that you come across, you’re probably gonna meet them again and again, and they’re gonna talk. And now with LinkedIn is like even [00:50:15] more connected.

Josua: And so reputation like travels really quickly.

Inka: And then my third, uh, is something what I actually learned from Mki. Uh, actually we’re gonna talk about him a bit later. That’s part of the surprise. But he always [00:50:30] said that if nothing else works, how about brutal honesty?

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: And, and that’s, that’s like a very Finn thing,

Josua: Matthew.

Inka: And. Uh, my caveat from that is that you can use brutal honesty, but in a very friendly way.

Speaker 5: Yes.

Inka: So if you’re not gonna invest, [00:50:45] if you think there is a problem, if the CEO has to be changed, if, if, if there are things that have to be fixed, how about delivering the news very directly, openly, honestly, but also in a humble way, [00:51:00] in a way that you would like to hear them from someone else?

Josua: Yeah. That’s like kind and honest feedback is a, is a gift. It’s a great gift. Yes.

Inka: And faster than later. Yes. So I think the thing is uh, and, and Nordic way sometimes a [00:51:15] bit like not saying the things. Yes. And that’s where I like Americans. Americans actually, they say things very straightforward. Yeah. And that’s good.

Josua: Yeah.

Inka: Mm-hmm.

Josua: Um, given that you’re involved with Deep Tech and you’re seeing companies from like, you know, very preceded [00:51:30] until you know there’s A and b and you know, uh, getting ready to kind of bring, bring products to market, is there any kind of technology that you’re super excited about? Maybe something that will I.

Josua: Come, you know, maybe be launched in the next couple of years and [00:51:45] really gonna have a, a concrete measurable impact on, on kind of day to day, because I’m thinking like a, you know, service like ICI and a lot of these things, like they’re, they’re happening in the background. We don’t really understand what it’s doing and how it’s, you know, basically something that’s gonna be [00:52:00] like, wow.

Josua: Are we gonna get some, what Basically what I’m asking is like, is there kind of some sci-fi projects that are gonna materialize in the next couple years?

Inka: I have so many, but I’ll, I’ll say this one thing. So, uh, we’ve been talking about Quantum for a long time. [00:52:15] Yes. And one of our portfolio companies, SEMICON, it’s VTT spinoff actually, and, and they develop a, uh, quantum chip.

Inka: And it’s a small, tiny chip with, uh, you know, tens and hundreds of qubits of capability, and they’re aiming for million qubits with the tiny [00:52:30] chip. Mm-hmm. Today, the quantum computers are a size bigger than this room here, extremely hard to maintain. They require con com, uh, temperatures and all of that. So, um, I’m super excited on companies like this.

Inka: Can, that can sort of a. [00:52:45] Revolutionized the whole industry. It’s a bit like what happened with PCs before the, and after the mainframes and all of that. So a bit of a same analogy. Open quantum based computing world.

Josua: That would change everything. Right? If you, if they [00:53:00] were to able to get that, that kind of computing power into like a small chip.

Inka: Exactly. And that’s what we need in Europe.

Josua: That would be amazing.

Inka: Mm-hmm.

Josua: That’s good. It’s, it, you, you’ve given a lot of reasons to say positive, not just about like the, the, the general development, but [00:53:15] specifically what’s happening here in, in the Nordics. Mm-hmm. Because, um, what we read and what I’ve had from so many of these conversations is like all the problems, you know, the lack of growth, the demographic problems, but, you know, it seems like we have this really, really unique and strong [00:53:30] research based technical like knowledge, um, knowledge base here in um.

Josua: Yeah. In Finland and the Nordics that, that we’re now thanks to you and like your team and people like you we’re, we’re learning how to commercialize them and hopefully [00:53:45] bring it to market. Um, or, you know, internationally and now we just need that growth fund and like even more money and even more talent than is, but

Inka: don’t thank me, thank the entrepreneurs, you know?

Inka: Mm-hmm. Be, being a VC is hard, but being an entrepreneur is. Really hard. So let’s thank [00:54:00] all the scientific founders, founders, founders in this ecosystem

Josua: for sure. Credit, uh, credit to them. Um, before we wrap up here, we have the surprise, like I mentioned, we’re gonna hear, uh, a poem

Inka: Yes.

Josua: From your upcoming book.

Inka: Yes.

Josua: Can you tell us [00:54:15] about what it is? How did it come about?

Inka: I’m dying to. So, uh, this book is called, uh, so on a Spring Ice.

Josua: Mm-hmm.

Inka: And as we know, spring Ice can be, uh, you know, very tempting. Uh, [00:54:30] sun is shining. You wanna go walk on the spring ice, but it can be also a bit dangerous. So there’s a bit of a, uh, sides to, and a story goes like this, that my co-founder and myself, MKI with whom we founded the first seed investment company in [00:54:45] 2008, and we co-founded seven companies together with Ra and Oscar, our third partner.

Inka: And Hara has been my, my, uh, colleague for. Now for 15 years. So we decided to celebrate a bit. So he’s been always, uh, taking photographs, these [00:55:00] fantastic black and white photographs. I think this, uh, book cover is even beautiful. It’s from uni, from Helsinki. People are looking at the sea in the spring.

Inka: Mm-hmm. Uh, the snow has started to melt. The, the light is back where, where? Back from our caves in, after the Nordic [00:55:15] Nordic winter. And um, um, we got an idea that I would write poems to all of his. Mm-hmm. Photos and he has tens of thousands of photos. So he started to send me one by one on a, on a WhatsApp, [00:55:30] and then I started to write these poems typically like in the middle of the night that I was going through some sort of a.

Inka: Thinking myself. And I started to look at the photographs and then the poems just came. And it’s been a wonderful journey, uh, to write this and I’ll, I [00:55:45] promise to read you one. And, and this, uh, relates to a picture where there are two people on, on a, on a thin eyes, uh, you can see two shadows.

Josua: Mm-hmm. That’s in healthy Yeah, exactly.

Inka: Out on the sea. Might be difficult to see, [00:56:00] see the picture here, but, uh, we can probably share it on, on social media or something. And, uh, I translated the poem ’cause all the poems aren’t finished. So can,

Josua: can you do the English and then also the finish? Absolutely, yes,

Inka: absolutely. Maybe I’ll do the [00:56:15] finish one first or,

Josua: sure, sure.

Josua: Yeah.

Inka: Which one would you prefer? Finish

Josua: first. That’s good.

Inka: Okay. Han Olein. So in Mina, go ahead and Haman.[00:56:30]

Inka: And the [00:56:45] English version goes like this, I would be her. That would be me. The second shadow of two figures, the biggest, surely dancing strides with him. Thoughtless. Unknowing, when to turn back [00:57:00] to gazed at the sea. A crackling frost flower beneath the shoe.

Josua: That was beautiful. So thank you. Thank you for, uh, for bringing that.

Josua: Uh, when is it, uh, when is it published and where [00:57:15] can you get it?

Inka: Yeah, so this is available at Book on Demand. Uh, if you google like my name in Camaro, uh, poem book or something, you can find it. But we can probably share the link on, on, on the, on the podcast story.

Josua: Absolutely.

Inka: And, uh, we’ll, we’re having a.

Inka: Book [00:57:30] Publishing party, uh, next month on, on May at Buma Ventures offices. So hopefully you’ll be able to join us,

Josua: hopefully. Um, Inca, thank you so much for coming on. Thanks. Um, and sharing, sharing your experiences and, and sharing the, the poem. Um, [00:57:45] really excited about to follow kind of what you guys are doing, um, with, you know, potential future funds, but also with the current portfolio.

Josua: I think it’s really exciting and it’s really good. It’s good for the world, it’s good for Finland, it’s good for the planet. Um, so best of [00:58:00] luck to you thanks to the team, your portfolio companies. And, uh, hopefully we’ll be able to do like a follow up second follow up, uh, conversation and, and talk about all the exciting tech and the, the small quantum quantum chip and, uh, how it’s changed everything.

Josua: So yeah. Thank you so [00:58:15] much.

Inka: Thank you. And, uh, thanks for having me here. It was. True, fun, and, uh, super interesting discussions.