3 takeaways from the conversation with Pia Lemmetty

Finland needs more late-stage funding to unlock scale

While Finland’s startup scene is vibrant and well-supported at the early stages, there’s a clear funding gap when companies begin to scale. According to Pia, many promising businesses struggle to raise larger rounds because local funds are still too small. Bridging this gap is critical to helping more companies grow beyond the seed stage and stay competitive globally.

Attracting top international talent is still a challenge

Finland offers a high quality of life, digital infrastructure, and public support systems that should be a draw for global talent. But as Pia points out, branding and visibility remain weak. To compete with hotspots like Berlin or Stockholm, Finland needs to do a better job promoting what makes it attractive, not just to founders, but to the technical and commercial talent that scaleups depend on.

Great companies need great financial strategy

Whether it’s preparing for an IPO, using M&A to expand, or simply understanding how to build a sustainable business modelm, Pia emphasizes that financial discipline is a make-or-break factor. Many startups wait too long to bring finance into strategic decision-making. The best teams think early about how their revenue model, cost base, and funding roadmap work together.

Watch the episode:

Podcast transcript

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E64_Pia_07042025

Speaker: [00:00:00] The Growth Pod is brought to you by Janero, a leading growth agency in the [00:00:15] Nordics. We interview marketing experts, business leaders, and entrepreneurs to uncover the stories and strategies behind profitable growth.

Josua: Thank you. Uh, thanks for coming. Uh, well [00:00:30] welcome to, to Finland and, uh, thanks for coming on on the show.

Pia: Thank you, Josua. It’s my pleasure to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Josua: Yeah. So we’re gonna talk a lot about your current role and, and what you’re doing at Tessi, but, uh, before we get there, could you briefly kind of walk through, um, your, [00:00:45] your kind of career and what led you to this, uh, to this role?

Josua: You’ve had a series of like, very interesting mm-hmm. Kind of interesting positions. So yeah, if you could give a brief kind of rundown.

Pia: Sure, of course. Um, so at the moment, um, I’m an investment director at [00:01:00] tei, the Finnish, uh, industry investment, uh, company that, uh, invests, um, in, uh, both directly into Finnish companies, um, as well as, uh, into funds.

Pia: Um, and we can touch on that a little bit [00:01:15] later. But in terms of my background, um, I’m an engineer, I guess turned into a financier. Um, I spent over a decade in investment banking roles, um, at two banks, um, in London [00:01:30] and in Stockholm, where I was. Uh, first actually during the global financial crisis, uh, working very closely, uh, with, um, companies that needed to refinance, uh, or restructure their balance sheets.

Pia: And, uh, that was obviously a [00:01:45] very, um, challenging time for many companies, including many finish companies, um, especially, um, in financial services and in in building materials, um, in, in many sectors really, because the market was really in, [00:02:00] in, in very fierce term at the time. Um. So that was, um, the beginning of my career really sort of trying to save a lot of, um, companies who usually, uh, companies which usually had a good [00:02:15] business, but a bad balance sheet and, and, um, which required a lot of difficult negotiations with different lenders and, and capital providers to ensure that, uh, there was a sort of a saving plan and then a plan [00:02:30] going forward.

Pia: Um, then I’ve worked, uh, after that, uh, very much in the m and a and IPO advisory field, so advising a number of, um, Nordic and also wider European companies on, [00:02:45] uh, larger m and a strategic m and a transactions. Um. And also on, uh, on IPO preparations and, and IPO processes. Um, I then moved on from banking to, um, actually the finish list, the company Nesta, [00:03:00] where I was working, uh, in the m and a team, uh, leading an m and a executions team.

Pia: And, uh, also the corporate venture, um, ARM was, um, under my team. And, and that was a really [00:03:15] exciting, uh, time at Nests history because m and a was a very key strategy execution tool at the time. Um, so, so a great experience. And, um, I really just got the. Um, hunger, I guess, to [00:03:30] go, uh, even deeper into the earlier stages, um, and, and helping companies really in that scale up and growth stage.

Pia: And, um, when I was asked to join, um, IQM, um, I could not say no to that [00:03:45] opportunity, and so I joined them as their first CFO, um, responsible, uh, together, uh, obviously with, with the whole company on, on, um, the fundraising activities around the time and also when scaling the business and growing, [00:04:00] uh, for, for a few years.

Pia: And, um, Tessie, uh, obviously became very familiar to me during those years as well. Um, so now back in and in the investment side, which is close to, uh, close to my heart and close to my history, it’s uh, it’s [00:04:15] sort of a very nice, uh, sort of, um, coming together of, um, of my previous experiences that I get to really leverage and utilize the testing.

Josua: I I was just thinking that because like you, you have a maybe uniquely kind of broad perspective on both [00:04:30] finance and capital markets in Finland, Nordics, and Europe. That is probably very useful in your current role

Pia: For sure. And I think also the types of challenges that, uh, companies face at different points in [00:04:45] their life cycle.

Pia: Yeah. Um, and I think from the various years that I spent advising companies, um, I’ve always been very much a generalist in, in terms of industry focus. So even though I’ve, [00:05:00] um, focused a lot on technologies and I’ve also had a very wide variety of, uh, industries that I’ve gotten a chance to, uh, spend time with, which is, um, what has kept it really, really exciting over time.

Pia: And I think, you know, you sort of. [00:05:15] W with a large volume of, um, of different companies that you get to work closely with, you sort of start to see similarities within industries and, and also the same sort of challenges that they face. And, um, also the same questions during [00:05:30] fundraising. And, you know, what is really important, what is important to consider when you’re building, um, a young business?

Pia: And, and, you know, I think fundamentally around how you build a sustainable business in [00:05:45] terms of a business model that, um, will deliver, um, a profitable, uh, business at the end of the day. Mm-hmm. And obviously we can, you know, decide to invest heavily into [00:06:00] growth at certain. Points in the company’s lifecycle.

Pia: But, uh, fundamentally the need, uh, to, you know, to build businesses that are eventually profitable and able to, uh, uh, sustain and, and carry their business through, I think is, is the sort of [00:06:15] common theme that, you know, I would really sort of. That I really keep on coming back to in my work at the moment as well.

Josua: Yeah. And that’s a, like a theme that’s become, especially in, you know, last couple of years been much more relevant than it was in

Pia: Yeah.

Josua: [00:06:30] 2010 to 2020, 22 or 20 when, whenever it was. But, uh, okay. So you work at Tess now. Mm-hmm. I guess a lot of people listening may and may not even have heard about tessi, but even if they have, they don’t necessarily know exactly what Tessie does.

Josua: I mean, um, yeah, there’s just been a, you, [00:06:45] you guys have a new strategy that you, uh, rolled out, uh, or announced in, in the spring, but could you also then give a kind of brief about brief description about Tessi Yeah. And, and the role that it plays in, in the finish, kind of, um, both startup ecosystem and maybe more broadly.

Pia: Yeah, sure. [00:07:00] Uh, so this is, um. The governments or fin state of Finland’s, uh, owned, uh, private equity and, uh, venture capital investor, uh, so fully publicly owned, [00:07:15] uh, by, by, uh, by the state of Finland. Um, and Desi has this mandate and role, which is tied into both developing, um, the Finnish venture capital and growth capital [00:07:30] market, as well as, um, uh, providing, um, information and market research and, and also improving, uh.

Pia: Um, many aspects of it including, uh, sort of sustainability factors [00:07:45] and, and helping the companies in, uh, building, uh, businesses that, uh, take into account, uh, the impact, uh, lens that is important to Tessie. But, uh, they see, uh, does two things. Uh, [00:08:00] they, they invest, uh, both directly into companies, so into, uh, venture capital, uh, sort of earlier venture capital, uh, series A type of, uh, transactions, which, which was, um, the [00:08:15] core of this business from before.

Pia: Uh, but now under the new strategy, the expanded strategy, this is also, uh, more and more focused on, uh, investing and ensuring the scale up and growth potential of, [00:08:30] uh, the most, uh, promising finished companies. So that means TEI is able to make direct investments. F almost throughout the whole lifecycle of the company.

Pia: Uh, obviously sort of. Some of the very early parts, sort of before [00:08:45] series, series, uh, a their, their tessi is maybe a little bit more sort of, uh, selective. But then, uh, throughout the life cycle, uh, Tessi is able to support, uh, the best companies and ensure that, uh, capital is available, [00:09:00] uh, also, uh, you know, in, in, in the right amount, which I think has been, uh, an issue.

Pia: Uh. Uh, for some companies before. Um, and, and that way support, uh, these companies, uh, through the sort of [00:09:15] the growth stage and, uh, also within the, sort of within that field, the, the internationalization, uh, stage of these companies. Um, DEI also, uh, participates on, uh, investments into [00:09:30] funds. So Desi has been, uh, very prominent in developing the venture capital industry in Finland, uh, through, uh, investing into the Finnish venture capital funds that, uh, you know, that, that have started their operations over here.[00:09:45]

Pia: And, um, they’re also selective, uh, fund of funds, investments that, uh, that is managing, uh, on behalf of, uh, of Finit institutions. Mm-hmm. So it’s a very wide, um, range of investment activities. And then in addition to [00:10:00] that, as I mentioned before, uh, there’s the market research. Uh, so bringing. Uh, and distilling information about the Finnish venture capital and gross capital market, um, and sharing that with, uh, with, uh, the, the universe [00:10:15] and, uh, or, or with the environments.

Pia: And, uh, and, and that is, uh, yeah, that is, uh, in, in short what Tessie does, I think also. Mm-hmm. Good to highlight that. Uh, uh, TEI has been, uh, around since, uh, 1995. So it’s the [00:10:30] 30th year, uh, 30th anniversary of, of TEI this year.

Josua: Okay. That’s really interesting. Is there, is this a unique thing on a maybe European level that there’s a publicly owned, government owned, state owned, uh, investment investing arm in, uh, [00:10:45] PE and VC or,

Pia: uh, it’s, it’s not unique.

Pia: There are others. We have many, um, similar organizations in, in other countries, and Desi has a long history mm-hmm. Uh, which, which is great and, and has been very instrumental in, uh. In really sort of [00:11:00] building and kick-starting the, the, the Finnish, uh, venture capital, uh, industry in general. Uh, but you have examples in, in other countries as well.

Pia: For example, in France you have bp, BPI, France, and they are very actively involved in, [00:11:15] uh, in, uh, and have been very actively involved in, uh, uh, building the market over there. Similarly to Tessi here. And, and you have similar examples across Europe. Mm-hmm. Um, the activities differ somewhat. So, you [00:11:30] know, every country has their own, uh, specialties and, and requirements.

Pia: And, and I think, uh, you know, many of these, um, similar organizations are, are sort of, uh, obviously tailored to fit the local markets. Um, but uh, here in [00:11:45] Finland, um, Tessi really, um, has been instrumental in, uh, filling, uh, the market gaps in financing and ensuring that, um. There is, um, [00:12:00] capital available also from local sources, uh, for companies that have, uh, that have, uh, started their operations here.

Pia: Um, so that we are not only dependent on, uh, international, uh, financing sources [00:12:15] because that obviously exposes us to, uh, changes in market, changes in, uh, geopolitical situation, um, and also to potentially these companies, um, that could otherwise, or would otherwise, [00:12:30] um, you know, remain in Finland being sold elsewhere.

Pia: So there see, there is, um, that it has, uh, certain principles of operation and, and one of the important, uh, objective of the operation really is, uh, [00:12:45] to ensure that there is, uh, enough, uh, local Finnish capital available as well, um, to enable and fuel the growth and success of, uh, Finn. Uh. Uh, startup and growth ecosystem.[00:13:00]

Josua: Yeah, the capital or, or maybe lack of capital. Mm-hmm. I think is interesting with, um, and that’s a, that’s a, you know, um, that, that’s like, like you mentioned a big thing that, that you’re trying to do. When you think about, when you [00:13:15] look at, for instance, Sweden and you think about the private equity ecosystem there, it’s like, feels like it’s 10 times bigger than Finland and obviously they’re using lots of international capital.

Josua: They’ve got these really big funds, but why is there such a lack of capital? Both, both maybe [00:13:30] like domestic, but also like, we don’t seem to have the capability to attract foreign investments. Um, you know, obviously there’s, in Sweden you have the north votes and all those big examples, but, but even so, I mean, they, they seem to be really much better at [00:13:45] attracting capital.

Josua: Um, so why, why is there a lack of capital in Finland?

Pia: I think it’s important to look at, especially on a country level, to look at things in context. Sweden and, and in its history as [00:14:00] well. Sweden, obviously if, if you look at the size of the population and also the history of Sweden and, and the sort of, um, accumulation of, of wealth and the size of the funds over there, you [00:14:15] start to see that, um, the market there is, um, quite a few years ahead to, to what it is here.

Pia: So I think it is not necessarily the case that we are not attracting, uh, [00:14:30] or, or not able to attract the capital. It’s more that our market in Finland is behind in, in that development, uh, life cycle. And we will get there. But [00:14:45] um, you know, we have to walk the path and I think what we are seeing now, um, and, and this is obviously.

Pia: What Tessie has really invested into, has been, uh, in, in the previous years, has [00:15:00] been in building this, uh, sort of fundamental, uh, venture capital industry in Finland. And, and now we have a lot of funds who are doing the series a early series A or even [00:15:15] earlier seed stage, uh, investments. So, so that part of the market starts to be developed in a sense that these funds are able to serve our, um, you know, our sort of blooming, uh, startup [00:15:30] ecosystem.

Pia: But where we are seeing, um, lack of funding or, or market gaps is really around the larger scale up, sort of later stage venture scale up and growth, uh, areas. And [00:15:45] especially for funding rounds that, um, you know, that are. Large and, and thereby, I mean, you know, over a hundred million euros or so mm-hmm.

Pia: Where the ticket sizes per investor are double digits in, in millions [00:16:00] there. Um, we don’t have, uh, the local funds or we don’t have that many local funds that are able to underwrite that size of ticket because our funds, uh, in Finland, um, are not big enough to be able to commit that much [00:16:15] capital into, into one investment.

Pia: And that is one part of the market that I think we have identified that that needs to be developed so that we have. Lo local, uh, you know, finished sources for capital as well for those funding rounds. And, [00:16:30] and so we’re doing that both from the direct investment side in, in investing directly into, uh, those funding rounds, but also then, uh, looking at how we can develop the funds, uh, the funds side, where hopefully in the [00:16:45] future we will have a number of funds that, uh, you know, that play in that sort of growth later stage, uh, vc or even also in the buyout, uh, uh, side of things because that’s also where the funds that we have in Finland are just [00:17:00] generally much smaller.

Pia: Um, I think the, the industry average, I think for buyout funds, uh, in, in Europe is something like seven times bigger than it is in Finland. So, okay. So there’s a really big discrepancy. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and that really feeds [00:17:15] into the sort of larger company, larger funding round, um, possibilities for, for local financing.

Josua: So would it be safe to say that we kind of like on the. Innovation side on the company side, we’ve, we’ve already made a lot of progress. Absolutely. And then maybe the financing side has been lagging [00:17:30] behind, but we’re kind of trying to catch up there.

Pia: Yes. And, and of course, I mean, we don’t have, um, we don’t have the same history of, um, you know, sort of homegrown funds as, as, as, for example Sweden.

Pia: But, um, and, [00:17:45] and that, that will just take time to build. But, uh, in terms of innovation, in terms of, uh, startup ecosystem, like, you know, the new beginnings, the, that is a, you know, a very vibrant market. We have a lot of very high quality research in [00:18:00] Finland, um, in the areas of deep deck, uh, quantum, um. There are, you know, health technology companies, uh, biotechnology companies, um, [00:18:15] various very critical technologies are actually at, um, the core of our research activities, many of our universities.

Pia: So I think the basis, especially now and within the current market, the basis for, um, you know, [00:18:30] for, for new beginnings and, and new startups is, is, is very good. But we need to make sure that we nurture those companies with, uh, you know, with the right resources and, and that’s. Financing, availability of financing at the early [00:18:45] stages, and then when they grow and scale, and especially in deep tech, uh, and especially if it involves hardware usually.

Pia: Um, and, and the same actually applies also for, you know, sort of, um, uh, health, uh, and, and, and medical [00:19:00] development. But there’s a lot of capital that is required, uh, over time to, to get to a point that, uh, you know, that the company’s actually able to sustain itself or, or, or move on to, to different, uh, strategic avenues.

Pia: But I [00:19:15] think we need to make sure that we are, you know, providing and or enabling that financing from, uh, from both local and international sources. So attracting the capital, um, to Finland and investment into Finland, into these companies. So [00:19:30] also, you know. Bringing these companies, uh, to, to the international arena in, in many ways.

Pia: And, and then also that we have the resources in terms of, uh, the brains and, and, uh, [00:19:45] the, the employees and the, the best employees, um, to, uh, to work and help these companies grow. So I think it’s a sort of a multifaceted, uh, problem, uh, that we have to solve. And, uh, and, and I know [00:20:00] that, uh, there’s a lot of work that’s being done on, on all of those aspects.

Josua: And, and to your point, I mean, it takes, it takes probably, uh, you have to have a huge generations of like successful companies that then create, um, inspire future founders, but also able to attract capital. And it’s [00:20:15] kind of a, maybe a chick, um, chicken egg problem. And it kind of, it does take time to get things going.

Pia: It takes time and then you will have examples of success and, you know, that will sort of help and, and, and fuel the, the. [00:20:30] The financing market again. So it’s also important that, uh, you know, we, um, find ways to enable exits because easily that money then ends up, uh, circulating back into the ecosystem and fueling, uh, hopefully [00:20:45] the, you know, the large numbers startups, uh, going forward.

Pia: So it is, uh, you know, a full life cycle, uh, in, in that sense that, uh, eventually, uh, you know, will help, uh, the, the ecosystem grow. [00:21:00] But I think that it really does take time because for a company, you know, from early stages to get to a point where, you know, some sort of an exit, uh, that releases some of that capital is actually available.

Pia: Um, that can be, uh, especially in [00:21:15] some of these very like deep tech areas that, you know, it can be, uh, yeah. A 10 year plus process. Right, exactly. And when you start, uh, a little bit. Behind, perhaps your neighbors or so forth. It just takes [00:21:30] time to get there. Yeah. And, and there are certain things we can obviously do to accelerate, which we’re trying to do very much with, uh, ensuring that, uh, the market has, uh, the required capital and, and also other resources.

Josua: Mm-hmm. When you look at [00:21:45] the Finn kind of startup ecosystem, um, what do you think that we’re doing well and, and what are things that we could improve?

Pia: So I think, as I mentioned, I think we have, um, I. Um, we have a [00:22:00] very vibrant, uh, sort of seed and early stage financing market, so there is capital available at those levels.

Pia: Uh, we definitely can improve and, and, and are working on improving [00:22:15] the, the sort of larger ticket size, later stage funding, uh, funding, uh, area. So, so this is obviously, uh, one very key area to ensure that, uh, the companies that we sprout in Finland are actually [00:22:30] able to grow in Finland, um, and can make choices based on their funding sources.

Pia: So ideally, you know, you will be able as a company to select the best investors for you that will be able to help you with the next [00:22:45] stage of growth that you’re, you’re seeking. And, and that could be local or international mix of everything, but, um. But then you are actually able to make the choice of, you know, who is going to contribute towards, uh, not just capital, but actually working with [00:23:00] me in these key questions around, uh, how do I commercialize this particular products in this particular market?

Pia: Or, you know, like, you are actually able to make very strategic choices on, on, on who you pick as your investors or what [00:23:15] group you pick as your investors. Um, what else we could, IM improve, I think is still, um, around making Finland, uh, attractive and accessible to [00:23:30] international talent. And I know that this has been very much on, you know, on the forefront of, uh, many discussions, but that is definitely an area where I think we have, we have so much to [00:23:45] give and also so much to gain if we, if we get it right, so.

Pia: Still very much, uh, very much I would say, uh, an area of focus.

Josua: Yeah. And that’s something that we don’t maybe [00:24:00] realize how, I mean, we have a good reputation, I find, but Finland is still seen as a very, I mean, we are, we’re not seen, we’re not comparable to Sweden in the eyes of most foreigners. Mm-hmm. Um, there was someone who mentioned examples, like when they shut down the, uh, when with, with Brexit, when they shut [00:24:15] down the EU offices in London, they poll the, the workers, you know, where, where do you wanna relocate to.

Josua: Uh, so they, based on their answers, they could rank like the attractiveness of the different capital cities. Mm-hmm. And Finland was, uh, I think on the same level as Bucharest. And [00:24:30] you know, when we think of, um, when we think of Finland, we don’t think of ourselves as being comparable to Romania. Mm-hmm. Um, but it, it, it, you know, I think there’s a lot of, we probably have a lot of work to do when it comes to, uh, we, we have the good foundation.

Josua: But I think, I feel like there’s a [00:24:45] branding. Branding problem maybe. And I, maybe there’s a lot of good work being done, of course. But yeah. What, what’s your kind of perspective? I mean, you probably talked to a lot of international, um, talent and entrepreneurs and

Pia: I do. And I, I think I should. Well, I mean, if that [00:25:00] was that sort of, um, if that sort of a poll was done, I guess during the time of Brexit, that’s already, you know, what was that?

Pia: It’s really like five time

Josua: flies. Yeah. Time flies

Pia: quite a few years

Josua: ago. Yeah.

Pia: Probably more than that. Um,

Josua: do you feel like it’s changed [00:25:15] already that short period time? I think it probably has

Pia: changed. Uh, I spend a lot of time in the UK and sort of obviously follow the local press, um, a lot. And, and I think, I mean, for 80 years in a row now, Finland has been, you know, at the [00:25:30] forefront of many newspapers with being the.

Pia: Happiest country in the world. Yeah. I think this is the, the research, um, or study done by Oxford University that ranks, uh, countries, uh, by, um, orient into Global [00:25:45] Happiness Index. And so Finland is very much, uh, known for being the happiest country in the world for eight years in a row now. Mm-hmm. Um, I think we should really capitalize on that and, and, and really like brand, [00:26:00] uh, around that because that’s a huge opportunity.

Pia: And I think, um, the reasons behind why we score so highly perhaps are, are, are the areas that I think we should really, [00:26:15] you know, look into and own and, and, and bring the surface and, and be proud about. Because I think, if I recall correctly, you know, the aspects, the key aspects are around clean nature and uh.[00:26:30]

Pia: Opportunity and equality and uh, and safety as well. And you know, for example, to start companies here, um, and to be able to grow your company, um, you know, the [00:26:45] infrastructure and ecosystem is actually very, very good for that. Um, and you can, you know, rest assured that you can do that. And you have the welfare system [00:27:00] behind you, which is, um, another factor that was very highly, uh, very highly, uh, sort of scored, uh, to, to, to this, um, pool by Oxford University.

Pia: And that enables you to really have [00:27:15] choices, you know? Mm-hmm. If you want to become an entrepreneur and start a company and grow that, you can do that. Uh, and. Take such calculated risks and, and you have the, the ecosystem behind you. So I think, you know, [00:27:30] bringing those opportunities, perhaps more, um, vocally into the forefront mm-hmm.

Pia: Would probably help a lot. Yeah.

Josua: And like you said, I mean, there’s a lot of great infrastructure that exists for starting business specifically. Um, I mean, [00:27:45] just the high rate of digitalization. Mm-hmm. Um, I, my experience and whenever you deal with government compared to other countries, I mean, it’s in Finland, it’s a very smooth process.

Josua: I mean, the amount of paperwork is significantly less and it’s easy and you can [00:28:00] trust it. Mm-hmm. And there’s rule of law and there’s stability and Yeah. So there’s all, all those things that would make a sense also from, from a company building perspective.

Pia: Absolutely. And everything, like, I think we take it for granted a lot of times, but like everything about business and personal, it’s, it’s, you know, online, [00:28:15] digital.

Pia: Yes. Yeah, exactly. You have the audit trail and uh, you can. You know, quite efficiently make changes or, or do what you need to do, um, through the sort of digital platform. So it’s, plus [00:28:30] also there are a lot of, um, you know, financial resources and other support available as well. So I think it’s really very attractive place where one could start, um, a business and that, um, you know, every [00:28:45] country has their own resources in many ways, but I think comparatively what I’ve seen internationally, I think Finland does score very high.

Josua: Yeah. Okay. So one thing that we need to do more of is you need to get fin start companies. We need to, people get people to move to Finland and start companies. Once they’ve started companies, they obviously [00:29:00] need to expand outside of Finland. Mm-hmm. Because we’re a very small market. And you mentioned the kind of internationalization and that, that being like a part of, of what Tessa is trying to, to, to promote or enable.

Josua: Um, what, why do you think, what do you think maybe some of the [00:29:15] main blockers are? Whether it’s financing or something else that kind of limit our company’s startup scale ups and their ability to succeed abroad. This is like a question that I personally think about because I, I see so many finished companies that are like [00:29:30] market leaders in what they do.

Josua: I’m not talking about the big ones. I’m talking about small SMBs who are like really, really good at what they do. Mm-hmm. And it feels like if this was an American company, there would be like, obviously the internal market’s much bigger, but like they would be so much bigger. [00:29:45] Um, so, so what do you, what’s your thought on that kind of limitations for international

Pia: success?

Pia: I, again, I think you really sort of need to be careful when you compare, [00:30:00] uh, especially sort of finished companies to American companies. Mm-hmm. Because the market, you know, the language uniform, like uniform language and, and, and sort of general. Um, openness of the market in the US it, it’s very different market [00:30:15] to Europe.

Pia: If we think about, um, even sort of Finnish companies scaling into different countries in Europe, you face, um, you know, a new, um, business environment with new, uh, legal requirements, reporting [00:30:30] requirements. Every country has their own requirements in, in many ways. So scaling is so much more work in many ways, uh, within Europe.

Pia: But that said, um, I think [00:30:45] that, um, and I’m seeing this a lot, but there, there is a lot of ambition to grow, um, and scale and internationalize for a lot of our companies. And I think what we need to make sure that we provide is, um, [00:31:00] the skills to do that, um, and at the right time. So sort of. Ensuring that our companies that have a lot of international potential, um, have [00:31:15] access to not only the capital, but also, uh, you know, the right types of, um, experienced, uh, advisors or, uh, networks that, that will, um, sort of help them along [00:31:30] the journey so that, uh, they can hopefully, uh, you know, make it a bit smoother and, and more efficient.

Pia: Um, and that I think is another important factor when we think about what we need to do here in Finland is, is also to ensure that we really have, [00:31:45] um, that we really have a strong network, uh, both internally and externally, um, to the type of talent that is, uh, needed, that’s specific for that particular industry that the [00:32:00] company’s scaling in.

Pia: Many of our strengths in Finland and many of the companies over here, you know, come from very, very specialized mm-hmm. Uh, technology niches in many ways that are at the forefront of, uh, you know, science and, and [00:32:15] technology and engineering. So the experiences, experience and skill sets needed are, are very specific, very sought after, and, and certainly, um, there’s a lot of international competition for those, uh, for those skills.

Pia: So I [00:32:30] think we need to make sure that, uh, we recognize that and, and make sure that we actually actively compete also in attracting, uh, the right skills, um, to Finland to help these companies grow. But I, I do think that, um, I [00:32:45] do think that, at least from my own experience, speaking to a lot of startups, that, that their ambition is, is definitely there.

Pia: It’s, it’s not a question of that, it is just, let’s take away the roadblocks. Hmm. Uh, and, and, and ensure that the skill, skills and support [00:33:00] needed is, is there.

Josua: Yeah. Um, I, I remember one example, I have a friend who’s like, he’s an engineer in a very, very specific field. And, and he had this, uh, colleague who was, um, I think from Iran.

Josua: And he was, I mean, again, they’re like [00:33:15] super specified, specific knowledge that’s like only probably a very, very small group of people in the world who can do that. And he had like, so much trouble with, with staying on in, in Finland, getting all the paperwork approved. Mm-hmm. And I’m sure it’s different for different cases, but you know, it, it feels [00:33:30] like when you have those type of people where it’s like, you know, we should do whatever, we can just, you know.

Pia: Mm-hmm.

Josua: We should really try to remove all the roadblocks for getting that type of like, very specific knowledge. Because like you said, there’s a global competition, um, and we don’t really, we can’t afford to. [00:33:45]

Pia: Yeah. Yes. E exactly. And I think, you know, we see especially on, uh, these very, you know. Uh, very, um, high tech, sorry, emerging technology, um, [00:34:00] areas that, um, there are very few universities that train.

Pia: Mm-hmm. You know, the top talent in one specific area that is at the, you know, forefront of these emerging technologies that, uh, we’re looking to build. And so it is really, [00:34:15] um, a global sort of talent shortage. And, and, and when you find and can attract, uh, you know, the right frames and give them the right resources, um, you will see amazing results.

Pia: But we, we do need [00:34:30] to also hold on, uh, in, in, in positive ways to, to the talent that we’re able to bring here. And I think, you know, Finland may not be at the most, [00:34:45] uh, let’s say Finland may not be the location that, uh, talent comes to for the, you know, the weather or, or, or so forth. But there are so many.

Pia: Positive aspects about settling down in Finland, uh, and, and, you know, bringing your family here. And I have heard [00:35:00] this time and again, you know, how, um, safe and high quality mm-hmm. Uh, you know, for example, education is, is high quality and, and housing and general living is, you know, it’s, it’s quite comfortable.

Pia: So there are many, many [00:35:15] com com, you know, competitive advantages that we can really highlight, I think, in, in process.

Josua: So, so it may have like a higher retention than, than some of the other places like Barcelona or Berlin where people maybe are more transitory.

Pia: Yeah, I, yeah, I, I dunno, I haven’t, [00:35:30] uh, done the Yeah, yeah.

Pia: The,

Josua: but it, it, it would make sense for, for the reasons you mentioned. Yeah.

Pia: But also obviously the language is, is one of the key aspects as well. Yeah. And I think, you know, Finland is, is very much, uh, you know, [00:35:45] nowadays everything is also available in English. And, and this is really important that we also ensure that, uh.

Pia: Um, services.

Josua: Yeah. And

Pia: schooling and mm-hmm. You know, the, the support that, uh, would be required to, you [00:36:00] know, serve that, uh, international talent community is available.

Josua: Yeah.

Pia: Uh, at least in English.

Josua: I, I’ve been just personally surprised when I, whenever I move in, like in Helsinki, I, uh, the, but the number of people who, who speak English.

Josua: Mm-hmm. Um, but [00:36:15] how international it is, and it feels like it’s changed a lot, just in, in my time.

Pia: Yeah. I, I’ve had the same experience actually when I moved back here after being away for about 10 years, I moved back and I was just. Uh, really surprised by, you know, the, the [00:36:30] change and in, in a positive way, very surprised by the change in terms of hearing a variety of languages.

Pia: Yeah. Uh, and, and you know, general availability of everything also, uh, in English, which is, I think, really important because when you are coming to [00:36:45] a new country, uh, to work and, and maybe you bring your family as well, uh, it’s a huge decision for every, you know, for every family. You don’t want to be moving around every second year.

Pia: So I think ensuring that that [00:37:00] process is smooth and, you know, everybody can sort of settle down and, and set themselves up for, uh, contributing and, and, and success, I think is, is really key.

Josua: Yeah. And we’re we, we kind of got a good starting place [00:37:15] there, or like, we’re, we’re, yeah, we’re in a good place, it feels like.

Josua: Yeah. Um, I wanna talk about, uh, ask a few questions about kind of like the bigger scale products that the TESS is involved with because, you know, obviously we got our startups, but then we also have these, these big industrial kind of [00:37:30] manufacturing. Um, there’s like the Blaster Green Steel project that’s underway as far as I understand.

Josua: Um, there, there’s talks of building this aluminum factory, I guess the first one in Europe, or like the only one in Europe, uh, in, in the te I believe is [00:37:45] involved with another project as well. So, so kind of how does that, how does that fit in with, with the mandate and, and how, is, is there like a unique opportunity in Finland for these types of, of projects?

Josua: You know, we are not [00:38:00] maybe gonna be the best in the world at B2B sauce, but maybe we can build like these, these, uh, these new kind of new types of, uh, industrial manufacturing or,

Pia: yeah, sure. I mean, I think it’s not. I think we can be best in the world for B2B sauce as well. Okay. Yeah, [00:38:15] that’s good. And, and also, you know, build these, these are, these are two different types of, uh, I would say industries and investment buckets.

Pia: But, um, TE also does participate in, in this larger or enabling these larger industrial investments and investment projects, [00:38:30] uh, where Plaster green steel is, for example, one of the examples that, uh, DESI has, uh, published, uh, interest to be involved in. Uh, so these are usually, uh, large. Multi-billion Euro investments into, [00:38:45] uh, projects that, uh, you know, last over a year to, or, or many years to, uh, to, to develop.

Pia: And, um, generally, um, we have, you know, seen that, uh, there are [00:39:00] many benefits, uh, in Finland that, uh, bring these types of investments in, into Finland. And we just need to make sure that again, we have the right consortium resources, uh, to enable them so we’re, [00:39:15] uh, also, uh, contributing to that. Uh, but for example, um.

Pia: One of, I would say one of the very key benefits are the, is the fact that in, in Finland you have comparatively very attractive, uh, electricity. [00:39:30] Mm-hmm. Uh, prices or energy prices, especially around green energy. Mm-hmm. So, um, and, and the availability of, uh, you know, space and, and, and sites at, uh, you know, at attractive locations is also, [00:39:45] um, a key factor.

Pia: Uh, so we can really, uh, attract that sort of investment. Um, and, and for example, with plaster green steel, this is, uh, an invest investment project where, uh, [00:40:00] where, uh, we will be contributing to, uh, very low, uh, CO2, uh, production of, uh, steel and, and, um, the energy environment or the energy market and infrastructure market here is, is really supporting that.

Pia: Mm-hmm. So [00:40:15] this is very much involved in, uh. Enabling such investments into Finland, which will obviously create, uh, opportunities and, and jobs, uh, going forward. There are a number of such projects being planned. Finland has a [00:40:30] long, a big pipeline of, uh, different, at different stages of, uh, of these types of investments.

Pia: And I think it’s very attractive, uh, and, and important, uh, sector. So this is an additional, uh, key, uh, component of what [00:40:45] Tess is doing in addition to, uh, working on the venture and scale up and technology scale up, uh, side of things.

Josua: Yeah. I think people don’t realize that we have a, like for instance, uh, we have very good electricity grid in Finland mm-hmm.

Josua: That supports, enables, uh, [00:41:00] some of these type of really, really big investments that maybe you can’t really even do in other European countries.

Pia: Yes. Both the security of supply and, and also the pricing, which is. In, in European level. Uh, very attractive. Uh, [00:41:15] so, so this takes a lot of boxes for these types of investment decisions.

Josua: What do you think about a broad, broad question, but when we think about, you know, startups, um, maybe there’s a, I’m thinking just job [00:41:30] creation. Mm-hmm. Um, is it, is it, is it gonna be kind of enough or, or do we need these types of big, ’cause obviously Finn economy, like going back, has been like these big factories in paper mills and stuff like that.

Josua: Um, and, and, you know, do we need like these two [00:41:45] big, large scale industrial projects in order to create enough jobs? Um, or, or what do you, what do you think about

Pia: I think, um, that

Josua: piece,

Pia: well, I think a healthy economy should not rely only on one type [00:42:00] of industry or another. I think we should have a diversified base of industries and, uh, you know.

Pia: Uh, sources for economic wealth, uh, in, in a nation. And, and, you know, that comes from a [00:42:15] mixture of, uh, high tech, tech driven industries as well as, uh, infrastructure investments and, uh, really playing to the strengths of, uh, uh, of the nation. Uh, so really understanding what are our comp [00:42:30] competitive advantages and, and making sure that we’re building an economy that plays from those strengths, because that enables us to remain, um, competitive and, uh, to win in, in, in the [00:42:45] international scale.

Pia: And, uh, international markets for, you know, for, for hopefully for many, uh, years to come. And then you just keep, have to keep on evolving because the market around you evolves all the time. So [00:43:00] that’s, you know, as true for, uh, Finland on the whole, as it is for each company that operates here.

Josua: Yeah, I do feel like we have a competitive advantage from our size is that we are able to probably move more quickly as a nation than, than some of these really big [00:43:15] nation, big countries.

Pia: Yes. Yeah, I think so too. Yeah.

Josua: Uh, given your kind of background in, in both investment banking and corporate, corporate finance, um, is there anything that you see typically in the companies that you work with or kind of get to know any, any, any [00:43:30] kind of, um, things that they could do better on that front that would enable faster growth?

Josua: Any patterns that kinda stand out?

Pia: Well, I think that in general, um, [00:43:45] already from early stages onwards, I think it’s really important that the management teams and founders really think about building, um, a company. So, and, and with this, I mean, having a [00:44:00] business model that. Works, um, that, uh, you know, really takes into account, um, how the cost is covered by the price of the product and, and not every [00:44:15] company operates in, in an environment that, you know, creates specific products per se.

Pia: Mm-hmm. Every company will need to have, um, a sustainable business model from, from the sort of financial perspective in, in that sense. So I think sort of having that early on in, [00:44:30] on your loop that, you know, we may be investing a lot into growth and that’s fine and we may be completely loss making and, you know, choose to do that, but really understanding.

Pia: What your levers are to turn the [00:44:45] business model profitable. What is the timeline that it takes, understanding the risks associated with that path or, or the potential, uh, you know, cases that may happen. And, and building contingencies also in your planning for [00:45:00] that. Um, I think will really help with resilience and it will also help with, um, growth in a sense that you will be able to really know what are your lever to drive growth and, and, [00:45:15] you know, steer the business based on what you experienced from the very sometimes, well, oftentimes, if there’s unpredictable market, right?

Josua: Mm-hmm. Uh, do you think a, a typical maybe challenge for startups is they start, you [00:45:30] know, you’ll typically, you’ll have a kind of a, a sales focused person who’s, you know, out there pitching, try and bring in customers recruiting, and then you have maybe a technical person and you don’t necessarily bring in that like, finance expertise early on or, you know, early enough.

Pia: I think [00:45:45] it’s actually, I think the important thing is that these experts work together and understand how, um, each of their area contributes to the overall plan of the company. And, you know, [00:46:00] that goes to such basic things as having very clear strategy, um, clearly understood strategic principles and building, uh, the operating, uh, steps and execution based on that commonly shared strategy.

Pia: In which case [00:46:15] then, you know, you can set. Pricing based on both, um, your cost structures, but also on the competitive factors that you see in, in the market and adjust accordingly, depending on what you’re trying to [00:46:30] achieve. But doing that in tandem and understanding exactly, you know, how, how that affects other parts of the business.

Pia: So I think the sort of, um, coming together, working together, uh, and, and communicating internally in a clear [00:46:45] manner, even when the companies are usually, you know, in markets that move really fast or in, in stages of their lifecycle, that move really fast. So, you know, there are a lot of changing factors all the time.

Pia: So it is, [00:47:00] you know, it is challenging, but it’s very important. So having a really sort of close knit management team that, uh, communicates, uh, and, and, and talks to each other, almost lives in each other’s head, I think is really, really, really key. [00:47:15] When you are in such a. High, uh, high, highly, uh, sort of changing and, and high growth stage.

Josua: Yeah. I mean, when you have a team where you have very clear, like different capabilities and skillset sets mm-hmm. But you can all work [00:47:30] very closely together. It’s amazing what like a small team can, can accomplish.

Pia: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that is really the, you know, the key benefit of many of, um, the startups and, and also the Finnish companies that [00:47:45] we can change course very quickly based on information that we receive.

Pia: So being able to distill what is the data that we need internally to make educated [00:48:00] decisions and then making those decisions. Fast and executing mm-hmm. That will keep you, you know, moving to the right direction and course correcting along the way. Um, so, you know, nothing is sort of set in stone and also in terms of strategy because especially when you’re [00:48:15] in markets that ev um, that evolve and develop very fast.

Pia: And perhaps the markets, uh, especially in some of the deep tech areas are, you know, the markets themselves are not really there yet. So you have to evolve, um, around [00:48:30] what you see happening around you. And, and, and that requires, um, being able to see mm-hmm. And, and attract the data that you need and, and then make decisions and course correct and ensure that the whole company is working towards those goals.

Josua: Mm-hmm. [00:48:45] You mentioned, um, growth, growth levers and, um, one obvious one is, uh, of course m and a inorganic growth. Do you think that’s typically something that I. Do you, I mean, obviously startups are not known to do a lot of m and a, but, but scale up and so [00:49:00] on. Is that, is that m and a something that, uh, we are kind of under prioritizing, overp prioritizing in Finland?

Josua: I really have no idea. Like mm-hmm. Is there, is there kind of a, what’s your sense of how we, how we approach m and a in Finland?

Pia: Well, I think, I mean, as, [00:49:15] as you said, a lot of startups, they are not, that, that is not at the top of their agenda. They generally, you know, are very rightfully, very busy building the internal, um, capabilities and, and building the business and sort of building in-house.

Pia: But then [00:49:30] when you have, um, strategic opportunities to really accelerate growth through m and a, I think, uh, in those circumstances it’s really important to look at, you know, is somebody doing what [00:49:45] I should be doing better? And can we actually acquire something and do we actually need to acquire the whole company?

Pia: Or can we perhaps. You know, try to find the right teams or, or so forth. So there are many sort of amalgamations of this, uh, you know, this, this sort of, uh, m [00:50:00] and a saga. But I think that, uh, you know, being aware that, um, that is a tool for strategy execution that could enable you to accelerate selectively, um, acquire certain [00:50:15] parts that are very important for your competitive position in certain market.

Pia: Um, and, and then thinking of what does it actually mean? So if you’re, you know, doing an MM and a transaction, um, there are certain. You know, key parameters that you [00:50:30] really need to think about very carefully and, and, and also ensuring that, uh, what you’re bringing on board, you’re able to integrate into your business, um, and, uh, doing the work when you are doing the acquisition.

Pia: So, you know, [00:50:45] focusing really on, uh, on, on the right questions and ensuring that this is a value adding component to your business. So I do think that, um, if the resources are there in terms of, uh, uh, you know, financial resources to, to enable m and a, it can [00:51:00] be a very, uh, attractive tool to expand to new markets, um, or, or, um, acquire strategically important, uh, businesses or skill sets.

Pia: Center the [00:51:15] company. Mm-hmm.

Josua: What are, I mean, just given your kind of your background, your work, you’ve probably seen a few of the few acquisitions have probably seen somes that have gone well and some that have not gone as well. And I, I guess the, the kind of common wisdom is that most deals fail to add [00:51:30] value.

Josua: Um, you, yeah, you can let, let me know what you think, but what are some of the, what are some of the questions that you need to be asking, um, in any m and a transaction in order to under, to really understand, make sure that you, this [00:51:45] is a value adding and not just something that looks good on paper.

Pia: Yes.

Pia: Well, I think, you know, obviously I, and I think that goes without saying that there needs to be a very clear strategic purpose for that particular transaction, but when, or, or acquisition. But when, you know, when, when [00:52:00] you then go and execute something, um, something like this, obviously it depends a little bit on size and sort of many factors around it.

Pia: But, um, I think the key areas where things can go. Wrong are [00:52:15] around not doing the due diligence that, uh, to the, you know, not doing the right due diligence, not concentrating on the right questions, um, not identifying certain risks, uh, [00:52:30] that, uh, you know, that you should have identified along in your process of analyzing that acquisition target.

Pia: Um, the other factor where I think, uh, it’s good to be very [00:52:45] realistic, uh, is around the integration, integration planning. Um, especially if you’re acquiring a whole company, the process of integrating those operations and activities into your business [00:53:00] requires, um, a lot of planning, a careful consideration.

Pia: And, uh, and also the execution phase is, is really important there. That’s where, um. Things can go wrong in, in a [00:53:15] value destroying manner. Um, the cultural integration is really difficult. Like, you know, that is something that sometimes perhaps surprises companies, uh, because corporate cultures [00:53:30] can be quite different and cultural integration is notoriously difficult to do.

Pia: Mm-hmm. So that is a, is a, is a good one to have on your radar when you consider an acquisition, uh, especially if the acquisition is to be [00:53:45] integrated fully. But some acquisitions obviously. Will operate very much as their own, own unit. Own unit going forward as well. And then, you know, there are other ways you should design, you know, your, your transaction to, to fit your specific purposes and, and what you’re facing.

Pia: And then [00:54:00] I think the other, uh, other factor or other area, uh, you know, where you can potentially go wrong is obviously around the, the valuation and, uh, sort of, um, understanding the realities of, [00:54:15] uh, what is possible with this acquisition. So ensuring that you make realistic cases and assumptions when you’re setting your valuation, um, and that you built, um, some contingencies into your plans.

Pia: Because usually, [00:54:30] um, things, well, you know, new information comes and, and, um. Un uh, unknown events happen and, uh, those are very often not in your control as well. So, uh, the, the outside market [00:54:45] affects a lot of, uh, outcomes in, in many ways. So building, uh, realistic, uh, you know, valuation models and ensuring that you have the right contingencies and, and the right sensitivities around, uh, key factors is, is key.[00:55:00]

Josua: So kind of essentially trying to really being mindful of all the things that can go wrong, um, not assuming that, you know, all these synergies are gonna be realized just because you combine these two departments that are not necessarily gonna work together as smoothly as as you would like. Yeah.

Pia: [00:55:15] But that is not to say that, you know, you should always look at the worst case at everything.

Pia: Uh, I think part of deal making is it’s really important to sort of. Understand the value of this

Josua: right

Pia: [00:55:30] component that you’re bringing in. And when you’re negotiating for a transaction, you, you know, you really want to understand very carefully what’s in it for both parties and, and negotiate from, from that perspective.

Pia: So I think, you [00:55:45] know, understanding the risks and meet against is very important for you internally so that you can plan and execute and, and, and hopefully sort of avoid a lot of unnecessary risks, uh, or known risks. [00:56:00] But, um, in order to get something that you need to accelerate your growth, you know, you also need to be prepared to mm-hmm.

Pia: Uh, to pay up for it and to see and [00:56:15] value the potential that that edition will have, uh, to your particular business. So, mm, uh, especially, you know, with, um. Some technologies or some companies that have specific talents or skills that are very [00:56:30] much in need. It’s, it’s often a fight for, uh, you know, fight, fight, fight for, uh, fight for those, uh, assets rather than, uh, something that you can sort of, uh, get for cheap.

Josua: Yeah. Yeah. And there’s a risk of not, uh, of not getting, acquiring those [00:56:45] types of technologies. Yeah. ’cause you may, uh, fall, fall, fall behind. Um, a couple, a couple last questions for you here, Pia. Um, we’ve had, we’ve seen a very quiet IPO market in Finland. Mm-hmm. Many other countries as well. Do you, is that something that we should be [00:57:00] concerned about?

Josua: Is there something can, that can be done about it or it’s just like, you know, it’s open, it’s closed, and if we have good companies and eventually some of them are gonna go public, some are gonna get acquired and it’s just kind of like, it’s not something really to focus on. [00:57:15]

Pia: Um, well, the public market has, in terms of IPOs obviously had, um, quite a quiet period.

Pia: And I think it’s. Bound to continue now, uh, with, uh, the latest, I think, uh, sort of [00:57:30] developments, uh, generally that market is very sensitive, sensitive to, uh, sort of sentiment and mm-hmm. And volatility and, and at the moment I think, you know, what really is driving [00:57:45] well, what, what really is worrying, I think a lot of, um, investors as well is, is just the unknown Yeah.

Pia: Of, of what will happen. And, and that it’s often visible then in the IPO window being closed, [00:58:00] um, or remaining closed, or at least not being, you know, um, it not being at its most active, um, or attractive valuation part. So I think it’s good to be aware that, uh, the market, uh, you know, [00:58:15] windows are open and closed and, and, and that depends on a lot of factors that we mm-hmm.

Pia: Don’t directly have any control over, hence, um, well, it makes it, um, uh, unfortunately, [00:58:30] uh, it makes it difficult for the capital to, to circle in, in the ecosystem as we talked about before. Yeah. So, so that is certainly, you know, one of the drawbacks of, um, you know, of, of the situation. But the market will not [00:58:45] stay close forever.

Pia: So I think the important thing is that, um, we focus on building companies that are public market ready. If public markets is, that is sort of, you know, as a target [00:59:00] for those companies, um, there’s never any harm about operating at public company ready level. Yeah. Because that generally means having, um, very good internal processes and controls being, you know, transparent [00:59:15] in terms of, um.

Pia: Certain types of information that you share. Um, having your data in order, um, having the right types of skills, uh, within the companies, in the management teams and the board levels. [00:59:30] Having the right committees in the boards. Like a lot of the factors that are required of public companies, um, in terms of the way that they operate, uh, are very beneficial to build over time and in, in, in all of our companies that, you know, [00:59:45] are growing because it’s generally linked with good governance and, uh, good management of companies.

Pia: So I think that there is, um, you know, a lot of room to build companies ready for that. Yeah. And then you have [01:00:00] the, um, readiness to, um, decide whether. Listing perhaps is the answer for you, or whether you may be looking at some other type of strategic, uh, transaction. Yeah, it could [01:00:15] be, you know, m and a or merging or, or whatever.

Pia: Um, but having the options requires being ready in, in many ways. So I think it’s, it’s part of the good, uh, good business building and good [01:00:30] governance that we, uh, prepare companies Also for the public market, it would be, um, obviously very good to have more, um, strong Finn companies in the Finn stock markets.

Pia: I think there’s space for them.

Josua: Yeah, I, I was just [01:00:45] thinking like, you know, obviously for each company they have to make that decision what’s best for them, but, but just from like an outside perspective would be, I think it would be good and it would be kind of. Cool. I don’t know what the right word is, but to have like these, these startups that then become like these independent, standalone [01:01:00] public companies.

Josua: Absolutely. Like we have the, the most valuable company in Sweden by far is Spotify, and they were mm-hmm. I mean, they’re, they’re a startup and they’re now, you know, massively successful and very sustainable business model apparently, and, and all that. So I think that’s, that’s kind of cool to see.

Pia: [01:01:15] Absolutely. I, I think that is certainly something that, uh, we should aspire towards in terms of, uh, uh, you know, developing a, a very vibrant and healthy public market and, and ensuring that, uh, we’re ready to tap into it when the time is right. Mm-hmm. Um, [01:01:30] and, um, while, sort of, while doing that, I think, uh, you know, also making sure that, uh, we are building companies that are sustainable over a long time.

Pia: Because once you’re in that public market, in that public [01:01:45] eye, they’re obviously, you know, reporting requirements, but you’re also expected to it to. Have a certain maturity of, uh, of business and, and, and certain, um, you know, ability to [01:02:00] generate. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, well not necessarily profit always depending on when, you know, when you IPO and so forth, but to be able to forecast Yes.

Pia: And, and communicate clearly, you know, what you’re doing and what you’re investing [01:02:15] into and, um, that level of, um, you know, forward-looking ness is, is something that is sometimes quite difficult to achieve at the very early stages of business. Yes. So I think sort of moving towards, um, sort of readiness to do [01:02:30] that is generally, you know, requires, I would say personally I would imagine as a company you’d want to be working at that level for about a year before you Yes.

Pia: Before you then perhaps decide to go public or so. But, um, I fully agree that, [01:02:45] uh, we should be, um, hopefully, um. Aspiring to, uh, really widen, uh, the variety of, uh, and number of, uh, attractive, uh, Finnish companies to actually go public. And, uh, that gives a lot of [01:03:00] opportunities. Obvi, obviously also for, uh, retail investors to invest into the Finn stock market.

Josua: Yeah. Uh, you know, let’s, let’s hope, and, uh, I saw a couple of weeks ago this you prominent Finn Investor who, who said that his prediction was, I forget it, but he had some [01:03:15] prediction on, on the, you know, top 10 or what? The top 20 biggest companies in Finland. You know, X number of them are gonna be startups within, you know, a pretty short number of years.

Josua: And, you know, he has a lot better visibility than I do, so I’m mm-hmm. I’m, I’m, you know, let’s, that would be very exciting and cool to see. [01:03:30] Yeah. Very hopeful

Pia: I think.

Josua: Yeah. Uh, final question. Um, if, if there’s one thing that you could change about, you know, the finished kind of winter scene or, or, or maybe especially from a finance point of view.

Josua: Or, or anything, like, anything that you could, if you could change just one [01:03:45] thing, uh, in order to be able to kind of enable more of these growth, uh, growth, uh, companies and scale ups, what would it be?

Pia: You know, I think it will go down to the talent and [01:04:00] making sure that, uh, you know, attracting more international talent, both at the company levels, but also at the boards, um, to ensure that we have the skills, very specific skills needed for our, um, startups to succeed. [01:04:15] And I think that would, you know, that would be a really, really important factor in addition to everything we talked about around, uh, the availability of financing and, and you know, obviously that’s something that we’re working towards.

Pia: [01:04:30] And, uh, I think there’s a lot, um, a lot of development that’s going into, but that’s also needed on the finance side of things. But, um, making sure that, uh, you know, the talent comes and stays and [01:04:45] succeeds in, in Finland, I think is super important.

Josua: Yeah. I feel like it, it often in, in a lot of different contexts, it comes down to people.

Josua: It does come

Pia: down to people, right. Like Yeah. I, that’s the thing. Like I’m a finance [01:05:00] professional, but it always comes down to people

Josua: Yeah.

Pia: On whether, you know, money on its own doesn’t do things.

Josua: No, no, no, no. Yeah. It’s surprising how it’s still people or at, or at least not the

Pia: sort of things that, you know, we want to achieve, so.

Pia: Exactly.

Josua: Uh, but yeah, thank [01:05:15] you so much for coming on. Um, and you know, best of luck to, to what you and the team at Tessa are doing. You’re doing really important work for the Finn economy, um, and for Finland as a nation, because this is critical that we have a vibrant economy if we’re gonna be a vibrant nation.

Josua: So, um, yeah, [01:05:30] best of luck with, um, all the companies that you’re projects we’re involved with and, uh. Um, it’s gonna be exciting to kind of follow, follow and see what you guys are, are, how you’re executing on this new strategy and all the, all the different projects that you’re involved with.

Pia: Thank you.

Pia: It’s been a pleasure. [01:05:45]

Speaker: Thank you for listening. You can find all episodes of the Growth Pod on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts.