3 takeaways from the conversation with Sondre Gravir

Engagement drives retention, and retention drives business results

SATS places a strong focus on keeping members active. Most cancellations don’t happen because people switch to a competitor, but because they stop using the service altogether. That’s why the company prioritizes group classes, structured onboarding, habit-forming features in the app, and consistent communication with members. Keeping people engaged is both a health mission and a business strategy. The more members show up, the more value they get, and the longer they stay.

Technology should support, not replace, the gym experience

While many expected home fitness and digital-only solutions to replace physical gyms, SATS is seeing the opposite trend. In-person training continues to grow, especially among younger users. The key is to use technology to make the gym experience more accessible and effective. That includes things like class bookings, habit tracking, and wearable integrations. But SATS is clear on one thing: digital fitness alone is difficult to sustain and hard to monetize. Technology is a tool, not the product.

Culture is the foundation when scaling operations

With thousands of employees across four countries, many of whom are young and in their first job, SATS invests heavily in reinforcing its values across the business. Clear expectations, simple values, and everyday routines are used to create consistency in how members are treated and how teams work together. Processes and standards help, but culture is what holds it all together. Especially in a decentralized, people-heavy business like this, shared values become the key to long-term performance.

Watch the episode:

Podcast transcript

E63 Sondre Gravir

E63 Sondre Gravir

Josua: [00:00:00] This up, but how do you pronounce your name in Norwegian?

Sondre: It’s, uh, Sandre Sandre

Josua: Sandre gra sand gra. Okay. Yeah.

Sondre: It Alright, that works fine. Perfect.

Josua: Perfect. Um, [00:00:15] son, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Sondre: Thank you for having me. I’m,

Josua: I’m really excited to talk about, uh, SATs or Alexia. I’m a, I’m a customer, a happy customer, so I’m interested to kinda learn more about the business side of things.[00:00:30]

Josua: But where do you, where do you work out which, which club do you go to? In, in Tap in, I know a shopping center in Espo.

Sondre: I know it, it, uh, tap is actually one of my, uh, we have more than [00:00:45] 270 clubs and Tap is, I would say my top three favorites.

Josua: No way. Really?

Sondre: Yeah, it is, it is. I like it a lot.

Josua: It’s a really good gem, good service.

Josua: Good. Like very clean, um, good equipment. Um, yeah, I, I really like it. I [00:01:00] really like it. So, uh, definitely gonna get into kind of how you’ve been building, building and maintaining such high quality across so many different countries and gyms. But before we get into that, I mean, you’ve been at, uh, SATs now for six and a half years, I think.

Josua: [00:01:15] Um. Before you transitioned to that role, you had did a bunch of different things in media, online marketplaces. So can you kind of briefly walk through the, the journey that led you to where you are today?

Sondre: Well, it’s, uh. [00:01:30] I think, you know, what’s important for me is to work with the, with the product or service that I, uh, use myself, uh, and uh, with the brand that, uh, I love myself and, uh, with the [00:01:45] product and service that are doing something good for society.

Sondre: I. And that has been, you know, I, I, I need to, you know, for me, work is not only a job, it’s, uh, it is a lifestyle. It’s a way of, uh, it, it’s affecting my whole, uh, my whole life. So it’s, uh, I need to have [00:02:00] passion for what I do. And, uh, I come from a family with, uh, with, uh, a lot of academics. Uh, so, you know, news has been a big part of my growing up, uh, and our family dinners.

Sondre: So it was, uh, that’s why I started working with [00:02:15] newspapers. And then, uh, it led to online classified, uh, the circular economy to make sure that, you know, things could be reused. Uh, and then, uh, and then. When, when the opportunity come, uh, came in [00:02:30] 2018 to join SATs. It was a, it was a very easy decision. It’s been, uh, it’s been a part of my life, uh, since I was a student.

Sondre: Uh, back in 1997. I became a member first time and, uh, it’s, it’s my social hangout place. So, and it’s, [00:02:45] uh, fantastic contribution to society, what we do. So, so it was a, it was a, a very easy decision to move over, uh, in 2080.

Josua: Okay. Uh, I definitely wanna get into the kind of business side of things, but you mentioned the impact [00:03:00] and your mission at sus is, I think, to make people healthier and happier.

Josua: And in kind of your, your reporting, you’ve outlined some of the impact on, on kind of public health that you measure it, for instance, in terms of quality adjusted life years. So can you talk about like, you know, the, the kind of, [00:03:15] what does it mean for the public health to have people working out? Like what’s, what’s the measurable impact that you’re having?

Sondre: Uh, it’s, uh, it’s highly relevant and I think, you know, you said in the beginning, before we go into business, let’s talk [00:03:30] about, you know, uh, the effect you have on society. But for, for, for us, and for me, that’s, uh, that’s, uh, luckily it’s the two, uh, two sides of the same thing. Uh, I’ll go back to that, but, but we have.

Sondre: We have a tremendous, uh, impact on the society. And, [00:03:45] and if you look at the society today, uh, despite what many people believes that, you know, people are, uh, working out maybe much more outside or they’re working out a lot at home, et cetera, that’s not, uh, that’s not the case across the whole of Europe.

Sondre: After Covid, people [00:04:00] have been working out less outside and less at home. So, and, and you know, inactivity is one of the biggest public health challenges we have in the society. Uh. More than nine outta, or more than 90% [00:04:15] actually of the sick leave in, uh, in the, in the Nordic countries comes from, uh, comes from, uh, uh, life’s diseases like, uh, you know, coming from, in activities stemming from, you know, uh, bad mental and physical health.[00:04:30]

Sondre: So, uh, to get people, you know. Uh, uh, from the coach, uh, to get them into activity. Uh, that’s, that’s super important for us. And it’s, uh, something we focus a lot on. And we have, you know, we have more than 45 [00:04:45] million visits in our gyms. Throughout one year. So it’s a, it’s a massive, uh, it’s a massive activity level.

Sondre: Uh, and we have reported on, as you say, what’s the real impact on society. And we, [00:05:00] uh, together with an external, uh, uh, external agency, we have looked at, we are contributing to more than 17,000 quality adjusted life years in the Nordic society. Meaning that, you know, people could live 17,000. [00:05:15] Years longer with high life quality, uh, based on the activity they do in our clubs.

Sondre: So, uh, we believe that, you know, we have a strong contribution to society, uh, and to get people going, to get, you know, [00:05:30] to get people motivated, to let them keep their training habits, to positively nurture them to to visit us again and again and again. That’s, uh, extremely important for us. And, uh, uh, in Tapiola there’s also a lot of senior [00:05:45] members working out, as you have seen in the gym.

Sondre: And, you know, for many, for, for, for many of our members, basically our club is, is maybe their only social arena. Uh, that’s where they meet people, that’s where they, you know, uh, socialize. So it’s also [00:06:00] important from a, so to say, mental health point of view in the society that, uh, that we create these, uh, meeting places.

Josua: That’s been really interesting for me to, to kind of notice and I’ve not been working out, let’s say like [00:06:15] that, but there’s been a big change. I mean, it’s gone much more mainstream. It used to be, uh, kind of this bodybuilding, you know, quite niche. And now like at my gym, I see lots of teenagers, girls and boys, lots of older people.

Josua: Everyone really, [00:06:30] um, yeah. I, I, I think I, I read that kind of the gym market in the Nordic countries is, is the highest, uh, most advanced in terms of penetration. So what do you kind of think is gonna happen over the next years? Are we gonna see this increase, just the [00:06:45] gyms are gonna become even more popular?

Josua: Or are we kind of at the point where the, the market is kind of getting a little bit, demand is tapering off.

Sondre: We, we, we strongly believe that, you know, this, this market will, uh, it has been growing for many [00:07:00] years and it’ll continue to grow. And, and you’re right. Uh, we are, you know, if you look at. The share of the population, which is actually paying for access to a gym.

Sondre: It’s, uh, high-end the Nordics compared to, to Europe. The only area, actually US, is a bit higher [00:07:15] than, uh, than the Nordics. Um, but it’ll continue to grow. We see that, you know. Uh, young people are working out more than the older people. Uh, so the younger generations are more active, luckily, [00:07:30] um, and they are active in the gyms.

Sondre: Uh, that’s, uh, that’s the area with the highest growth in terms of activity for young people. Uh, and then we see that they maintain their habits as they get older. So you will, you know, over time you will see a higher share [00:07:45] of the population being active and working out in the, in the in fitness clubs and in gyms.

Sondre: Uh, and then. Our product offering is developing. So, you know, we, we, we, we develop product that has a broader, uh, [00:08:00] broader target group. So, you know, we get more and more people, so to say, into the gyms that, you know, maybe earlier felt it was a big barrier and to the gym when you had a lot of body builders and, you know, strength focus, which is not the focus anymore.

Sondre: [00:08:15] Um, and also, you know, with the, with the higher. Senior share in the population As we know, you know, uh, a big shareholder population in the Nordics in 10, 15 years will be about 60 years old. Um, they have a lot of time and they are very focused on, you know, [00:08:30] living, uh. High quality life, even if they get, you know, retired from work.

Sondre: And then, you know, staying active is a big part of that. And then on top of this, you have the whole mega trend in the whole society around the world of living a healthy lifestyle. So, so [00:08:45] we believe that there are several factors that will continue to grow, drive growth for this industry.

Josua: Yeah, for sure. I, I, I totally agree.

Josua: What do you then think about, you know, working out from home? You kind of touched on that. Uh, I’m thinking now with like [00:09:00] wearables and ai, you know, obviously during the Covid pandemic, lockdowns companies like Peloton were like super hyped. I think their stock is like down 95% from the all time highs.

Josua: People are going back to the gym. But, you know, over a 10 year period, do you [00:09:15] think gyms are gonna continue to play a very, very important role maybe for the social aspects that you kind of mentioned as well?

Sondre: It’s, uh, you know, I’m, I’m a bit surprised actually that, you know, the number of people working out at home is on a [00:09:30] declining trend.

Sondre: Uh, I, I, I would expect to be honest that, uh, that trend to increase. But I think, you know, I. Even, you know, you can have a lot of technology, uh, supporting your fitness, uh, journey and your activity. [00:09:45] Uh, if you’re running, cycling, have, you know, uh, lifting weights or whatever you do, uh, you can have technology supporting it.

Sondre: So, you know, you get motivated, you get, uh, you get input on how to do it the right way, et cetera, and follow programs and all these things. [00:10:00] But still, you know, uh, unfortunately working out is still a physical activity. Uh, and, and. The power of habits, the power of a positive habit, and the power of doing things together with other people.

Sondre: [00:10:15] It’s so strong and it’s so important for people in order to continue to stay active. So, you know, having a place to go to having at the part of your daily routine, uh, and then we see, for example, with our [00:10:30] classes, group training is a big part of our offering. Those who are actively working out in classes, they stay much longer as members and they come, they stay much longer active than others who are just working out by themself.

Sondre: [00:10:45] So the social aspects of doing things together and having a routine, uh, in your daily life, it’s super important to maintain the habits. So we believe that, you know, that will be a key part no matter how much technology around us is, uh, developing. But technology is a great [00:11:00] supporter for the journey.

Josua: Yeah, and you and you guys are obviously using that as well.

Josua: But, um, I wanna talk about the, the group classes because I was surprised. I think I remember reading that about 50% of members are in some kind of group class. And at my gym I’ve, [00:11:15] you know, anecdotally I’ve seen, I was surprised by how popular they were. Like they’re, you know, seems like they’re always sold out.

Josua: Um, lots of different classes. So is, has that been kind of a core focus, um, as part of your retention and customer experience strategy? And [00:11:30] how are you? Able to kind of create, differentiate in that because I mean, there’s lots of classes, uh. Um, that people could potentially take.

Sondre: Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, the whole, uh, the whole focus around classes is, that’s [00:11:45] mainly where we are differentiating from competition, right?

Sondre: Uh, if you, if you look at, uh, the different, uh, players in the Finn markets, for example, uh, there’s a lot of, uh, gyms. Uh, there’s a lot of player, actually, Finland is the market in, in, in the, in the [00:12:00] Nordics with the highest gym penetration compared to the population. Oh, okay. Uh, so yeah, so it’s, it’s a, it’s, it’s a lot of gyms, but where we are really differentiating is in terms of the product offering and having this strong cluster.

Sondre: So we are, we are very [00:12:15] much focused on, you know, a few cities having many clubs in those cities. So, you know, members can find a club close to where they live, close to where they work, et cetera. And then having this enormous variety of classes, both in terms [00:12:30] of different types, but also in terms of number of classes is a, it’s a, it’s very important.

Sondre: So, uh, so, uh, yes, that’s, that’s key. And you know, as you said, around half of our members use it. And what we see is that the lifetime of those [00:12:45] members joining classes is much higher because they stay active longer. And, and we see, you know, strongest growth, uh, now in terms of number of people going to the classes, much stronger than on the fitness floor.

Sondre: And, [00:13:00] and we are launching continuously new concepts. We are launching, uh, you know, we have a lot of focus on yoga, Pilates, running, hit classes, et cetera. Uh, and, and, uh, and also hot studios as we’re building some in now. So, so, so [00:13:15] we are. That will be one of the main drivers for growth for us going forward.

Sondre: And then it’s so important for us, uh, to, to keep the members active because, uh, you know, there’s a, and there, we’re [00:13:30] coming back to what we talked about in the beginning, you know, the link between public health and business. For us, that’s two, two sides of the same story because. Most of the people leaving us more than 75% of those members canceling their [00:13:45] membership, they don’t do it because they go somewhere else.

Sondre: They do it because they become passive. So for us to keep the members active is so important. Then they don’t cancel our active members, those who visit us, you know, once a week. They are super happy, [00:14:00] uh, and they continue their membership. So having people joining classes is also an extremely important contributor, both to public health, but also to, to our sort to say, uh, business side of things because they continue their membership longer.

Josua: I would [00:14:15] not, I, I would’ve guessed that most people end up quitting because they move somewhere else, but, uh, I, yeah, that, that’s really interesting. I, it, it must be really great. To be in a selling product where it is actually very good for your [00:14:30] customers. The more they buy, the more they use, the better they feel.

Josua: Yes.

Sondre: And, and this, this is, you know, from a, we are a stock listed company and you know, this is, this, this thing is something we spend a lot of time to the financial market to try to explain because, [00:14:45] uh, many people believe that the way of making money in this business is to, you know, have a lot of members who are not visiting you because then you don’t have a lot of cost, but you have the revenue.

Sondre: They leave, you know, people, luckily we are irrational, right? So, uh, if you, if you [00:15:00] haven’t used your subscription, no matter what type of service you pay for, uh, it varies, you know, from Spotify to Netflix to newspapers, to gyms. It, it varies how long it takes from, uh, consumers stop [00:15:15] using the product till they leave.

Sondre: And I’ve been working with, you know, subscription businesses in my whole career in different industries. But, and it varies, uh, as I said, from when they stop to when they cancel, but they will [00:15:30] cancel. People will not continue to pay for the gym membership, which is, especially in these times with the tough consumer sentiment and high interest rates on your, uh, mor ous, et cetera, people will not pay, continue to pay for months.

Sondre: If they stopped using it. [00:15:45] So for us to, you know, really, you know, really have a growth in terms of visits, having, you know, a higher share of our members using our products often is super important. And that’s why we are, you know, working so much with. [00:16:00] What we call digital nudging. You know, if you have been to our gyms regularly for a while and then you know, you suddenly you don’t show up in two weeks, we will, we will reach out to you, we will, you know, our, our data will pick that up and you will get the app notification saying, you know, Hey, we miss you.

Sondre: Please [00:16:15] come back and, uh. And, uh, it’s of course because our vision is to make people healthier and happier, and you don’t get healthy and happy if you stay at home. But it’s also driving business. It’s also, that’s also what’s driving our result to say financial results. So these [00:16:30] two things goes, uh, hand in hand.

Josua: Yeah, totally. I mean, it’s a really, really a sweet spot. And the strategy seems to be paying off. You’re, you’re, you’re growing, uh, number one in Norway, suite and Finland, number two in Denmark. So the biggest shakes, [00:16:45] um, and, and. C you know, one of the metrics that you track is customer engagement, and that is going up as well.

Josua: That kinda speaks to, to the impact you’re having. Um, you mentioned kind of the digital tools there, so can you talk a little bit about the opportunities there [00:17:00] are for, for creating a better customer experience, increasing customer retention with those types of tools? I’m thinking specifically, you know, I have the, the Sutz app.

Josua: Um, and I get some data, you know, how many visits I’ve had and so forth. But I have a different app where I track all my reps and [00:17:15] sets and kinda get the, the, the, that kind of progress. And I would love to have everything in, in the SETS app feeding me kind of insights and analytics on how I’m doing things I can do better.

Josua: Um, I think that would create, that would make it harder for me to leave as a customer if [00:17:30] all my data is, is there. So can you talk about kind of the opportunities, um, in, in that space?

Sondre: Sure. Sure. It’s, it’s, it’s super important and, and our app is of course the, uh, the glue as you say to, to customers. And we see a lot of [00:17:45] engagement in the app, even if people are not coming to the gym.

Sondre: So it’s also a way of, so to say, making sure that we motivate people to come to the gym and actually visit us. Um, and the app we have around. 200 and, uh, 30, [00:18:00] 40,000 unique users every day in the app. So it’s, uh, it’s quite massive. And of course you use the app to check in. Uh, you use the app to book your classes.

Sondre: So we have a lot of data about, you know, when you’ve been with us, what you have done based on where you live, your demographic data, et cetera. So [00:18:15] we can also then target communication and target product development. And it’s super for us, these data. I’ll come back to the consumer side and the member side, as you say.

Sondre: But this, this data is extremely important for us in our daily [00:18:30] operations because it means that, for example, on the group class schedule, we use this data, you know, continuously to make sure that we have the right schedule and that we, uh. Because we have a lot of products and we cannot have all the products in all the gyms.

Sondre: [00:18:45] Uh, so we need to use the visit data to, uh, to, to, in a way distribute the products in the cluster to make sure that, you know, everyone has access to all products. Uh, even though we don’t have all products in all the gyms. Then when it comes to the member side [00:19:00] of things, it’s, uh, you’re right, it’s super important and, and there’s no limits for what you can do.

Sondre: And, you know, the types of, uh, data, et cetera, you can make available in the app. We actually have this, uh, uh, this service. As you [00:19:15] say, you can track your reps and, uh, and uh, how much weight you have on the different exercises, and you can follow different strength programs, et cetera. In the app, the penetration is.

Sondre: It’s, it, it’s growing, but it’s not, uh, it’s not growing or [00:19:30] it hasn’t become like a big success from when we launch it. And I think, you know, the reason being that in this industry and in the fitness world, there’s so many great, you know, free, uh, digital [00:19:45] programs, uh, free, uh, digital apps, et cetera. So I think it’s difficult to.

Sondre: Get members to do everything in our app. Uh, I think we just have to, you know, uh, uh, live it. And this is [00:20:00] also back to Peloton mentioned Peloton, who have, you know, seen a big decline in the share price. I think, you know, this is why it’s also so difficult to really be profitable in digital fitness. Because if you have, you know, uh, if you have, we tried during Covid as [00:20:15] well, right?

Sondre: We launched, uh, our own home training solution, digital solutions, et cetera. And it’s really difficult to make that business profitable because the, the global universe of free content when it comes to training is just. Tremendous. It’s [00:20:30] nearly one of the biggest categories of the music and movies. So, so it’s, which is great, uh, because you can get a lot of inspiration in, uh, in the digital space for your fitness journey.

Sondre: But we try all the time to develop different features and make, you [00:20:45] know, our members get benefits from the app, but I think we just have to realize that, you know, we can’t cover it all.

Josua: Yeah, that makes, that makes sense. So, so there’s, there is that tracking feature in the WhatsApp then? Yes. You mentioned, so see, [00:21:00] I, I didn’t even know about that and I would’ve No, would exactly.

Josua: We probably,

Sondre: we probably should communicate it better.

Josua: No, but it’s, it speaks to what you mentioned is that, you know, there are all these apps out there and you people are using all kinds of different solutions, resources, and [00:21:15] getting Yeah. You know, it might not be make a lot of sense for you guys to get, uh, you don’t need to do it all.

Josua: You can be the place where people come to use, use those apps.

Sondre: No, but, but, but, but you’re absolutely right on the point in terms of retention. You know, the more data, uh, you have in the app, uh, [00:21:30] and now we’re having, I. Testing it in the better version now, for example, that you link, uh, you know, if you have Apple Watch or Garmin watch or soon to watch or whatever type of uh, uh, watch you have.

Sondre: Uh, for example, I have this Garmin watch. Uh, we will soon launch it. We have now in better [00:21:45] that you link that to the app. So we get all the data from that into the app as well. So you’re absolutely right from a retention point of view, the more data and the more interaction we have with members in the app.

Sondre: The more difficult it is to live. Right. Because that’s the, [00:22:00] that’s, that’s the place where you have a lot of data.

Josua: Yeah. Um, I wanna talk about, you know, as, as a clear market leader, I’m guessing one of the thinking things that kind of like top of mind for you is obviously Yes, increasing engagement, getting the retention up, [00:22:15] but also just increasing the overall size of the, the market.

Josua: And I know so many people that I know would be. Could become really active users, but they’ve never gotten, they’ve never built a habit. And there’s often a big [00:22:30] threshold, like you, the gym can feel a bit scary. You don’t know how to use the machines, you don’t know how to the program. So are, are you thinking actively about this, like lowering the threshold to create the, you know, taking penetration from what, 20% to like 30, 40%?

Josua: Which it like [00:22:45] realistically it should be somewhere up there. It should be much higher than it is now, even though we’re. We have high penetration. So how, how are you thinking about kind of like increasing the, the overall market?

Sondre: No, you’re absolutely right. And I think, you know, in, in this, uh, in, in this [00:23:00] era, it has happened a lot over the last couple of years.

Sondre: And, and for us it’s, you know, we want to be a place for everyone and we want everyone to feel included. We want everyone to feel safe, everyone to feel welcome. Uh, and, and having, you know, for example, having staff, [00:23:15] you see you, most of the growth in this industry is coming from local streams with no staff, uh, and for us to have staff, we have 10,000 employees in such, they’re all trained, uh, and, and very competent and very passionate about what they do, [00:23:30] uh, and for us to make sure that we, so to say.

Sondre: We have this variety of product, we have this welcoming atmosphere, uh, where you know, the barrier to entry and, and you know, it’ll be easy to get help. You will have a free PD session when you [00:23:45] join so you can, you know, get to know the fitness floor and get to know how the machines work, et cetera. So, so.

Sondre: All of these measures are super important. And we also see that classes, especially a lot of the newer formats now are really, so to [00:24:00] say, low barrier, uh, to entry. So, you know, you see that people, for example, even if they haven’t been running a lot, they can, uh, they can join, uh, in the running class because they can walk instead of running.

Sondre: Uh, you see that? Uh, the category is growing a lot [00:24:15] with yoga and Pilates, growing a lot. Those are, you know, super important, uh, super important classes, but the barrier to entry is actually a bit lower than maybe entering a class with a lot of choreography, et cetera. So there’s a [00:24:30] lot of things we focus on to make sure that, you know, people really feel welcome.

Sondre: And this is the key focus also for our employees to make sure that, you know, the atmosphere is if the atmosphere in the gym is friendly and welcoming. People might also try, you know, [00:24:45] things they, they didn’t think they would try when, before entering the gym

Josua: for, for for sure. And I just anecdotally, I I, I’ve felt that, I mean, I’m gonna experienced gym goers.

Josua: I’m not intimidated, but I felt that, you know, this is an environment where I think people who [00:25:00] are not as experienced would also feel. Comfortable going. Uh, you mentioned 10,000, which is a huge number. Uh, I don’t know how many Nordic companies there are of that scale. Not, not many, I guess. Um, so, you [00:25:15] know, how, how do you go about kind of creating that cultural, uh, alignment, um, making sure that everyone is living up to the cultural values?

Josua: And I’m thinking especially because this is a workplace where you have a lot of first time employees, [00:25:30] they’ve never been in the workplace before. Yep. Uh, so how do you manage all of this at, at this massive scale across four countries and close to 300 gyms?

Sondre: Um, that’s, I, I think, you know, that’s from a, you know, from a leadership point of view, [00:25:45] that’s the most important area we have.

Sondre: You know, I. As you say, we have many employees. Uh, many of them are young, uh, and we also, of course, you know, this is maybe their first workplace. Uh, we have many students, so, you know, we naturally have a [00:26:00] quite high churn. Many people stay with us for a few years and they, they move on in their lives, which is, which is great.

Sondre: Uh, so there’s a lot of things to say about this, but I think, you know. It has to start with the values and the vision and the purpose of the company. [00:26:15] And, and the values are very strong in our company. Uh, so the vision is very clear, uh, making people healthy and happier. And then we have four very strong values and we focus a lot on this.

Sondre: And, uh, especially in the leadership, [00:26:30] uh, development and focus across the whole organization. And then it’s important for us to have, you know. Good leaders, uh, that are good role models. Uh, we have, uh, we have fantastic club managers. They, many of them have been with us for a long time, [00:26:45] uh, and they make sure that, you know, even though, uh, you have a high, you know, high, high number on new commerce coming into the business every year, they, they get, so to say, uh, uh, quickly docked into the sorts and Alexia [00:27:00] culture and values.

Sondre: Uh, but, but I think, you know, no matter. Which business you are in and which industry you are in. As long as you have many employees and you’re recruiting many new people every year as we do, uh, and there’s a lot of young people, it has to be value [00:27:15] driven. It’s the only way you can have the routines. And we, of course, you know, we are, we are a retail company, right?

Sondre: We are like McDonald’s, Starbucks or whatever, grocery retailer. We are a retail company. We have. Many, uh, many operational routines. And, you know, [00:27:30] the way we do it in Ola, where you work out is the same way we do it in Stockholm and Copenhagen and Oslo. Uh, the routines on when, you know, when, uh, what will happen every 15 minute in the club, uh, opening hours, how often you do the wardrobe check, how [00:27:45] often you clean what all of these things are a hundred percent the same across the whole company, across all clubs.

Sondre: And you need to have that in place. You need to have that structure and those operational routines in place. It boils down to values because you need to [00:28:00] have people understanding why they do it. Uh, and, and we have, we have core values, uh, in our company that are, you know, key focus. Every time I communicate with employees, I focus on the values.

Sondre: Uh, so it’s being professional, [00:28:15] being accountable, uh, so you, you really need to be professional and accountable in everything you do. Then you always have to put members first. It doesn’t mean to that, you know, you will do everything for members, but you have to put [00:28:30] yourself in the member’s shoes and take the member’s perspective and not the internal perspective.

Sondre: And then being extraordinary because we want to, so to say, exceed expectations. So putting members first, being professional, being accountable, and being extraordinary. Those are [00:28:45] our four values and, and, uh, that links to everything we do. And, and in order to keep those values alive, you have to focus on it every day.

Sondre: Every day. And, you know. We start all management meetings in, so for example, in my team, my management team, we start all [00:29:00] management meetings, physical meetings, no matter how you know, big the agenda is for the meeting. And no matter how short time we feel we have, we start all management team meetings with 30 minutes where we go around the table and everyone [00:29:15] in the management team have to share a practical example of where they’ve seen our values come to life in our clubs since last management team meeting.

Sondre: And then if you do that, every management team meeting it, you know, the, the it [00:29:30] sets, it sets the tone. You know, values are the most important driver for everything we do. And, uh, this is, this is extremely strong in our company. And for me personally, as a, as the CEO of the company, this is, uh, this is, uh, if I had to pick one thing, I would say that that’s [00:29:45] the most important thing we’ll do, because the result, uh, of that, uh, has so many positive effects

Josua: that that’s pretty incredible.

Josua: I’m, I’m guessing. It’s safe to say that most companies your size or any size, don’t start with 30 minutes of looking at [00:30:00] concrete examples of how the values are being lived out in the company. But like you said, if, if you believe that values are the most important thing, um, then that’s what you need to do.

Josua: Because they’re not gonna, they’re not gonna implement themselves. They’re not gonna, uh, just because you communicate it, just [00:30:15] because you, uh, write down a piece of paper. It’s not gonna be experienced by the person who’s, you know, the, the young student who’s. You know, working shifts two days a week. Um, exactly.

Josua: Yeah.

Sondre: And the values that, you know, they, they, they will die within six months. If you [00:30:30] don’t, if you don’t do this continuously, they will die because, you know, people don’t focus on it. You have new people coming in, they don’t learn to live it. So, so this is, and, and this is extremely important and I think, you know, no matter if you’re a developer working on, uh, on, you know, developing code in [00:30:45] the app, if you’re a group class instructor, if you’re a pt, if you’re a club manager, if, or if you’re working with our so to say financial accounts, no matter which role you have in the company.

Sondre: You can use the values to guide your decisions every day. [00:31:00] Um, and then if, if, if we succeed with that, if we succeed with having all our 10,000 employees, having those values in the back of their head and thinking about, you know, using this as so to say, guidance in their small [00:31:15] daily decisions that work every day, I’m sure we will, you know, develop as a company in a great way.

Josua: It’s so, that’s so powerful when, when it becomes like a shared language around these values. And I, I feel like at least, um, to me from the outside, Amazon is like [00:31:30] one of the companies that have done this extreme incredibly well. Like everyone knows this, everyone knows the principle leadership principles and they, they have these terms that they use over and over again, and everyone knows what it means.

Josua: Um, it’s so, so powerful.

Sondre: [00:31:45] It’s, it’s, and it’s, uh, and it’s uh, you know, when also work with something which is important for people, uh, and so important for society. It also gives. An important dimension to it. And then we have a lot of, you know, passionate people with a lot of energy. So, you know, [00:32:00] having extraordinary as a value, allowing them to, you know, sometimes do, uh, you know, something which is not written in the operational routines that you have to do, but, you know, let the, let the flourish of energy grow.

Sondre: That’s, uh, that’s also fantastic. [00:32:15]

Josua: Just outta curiosity, do you have, uh, a process in place for kind of like surfacing those types of, let’s say there’s someone at the my gym who does something extraordinary, like, do those stories get shared inside the entire company as kind of a Yeah. How do you, how do you go about kind of trying to [00:32:30] share those kind of stories and examples?

Sondre: I. There’s a, you know, you have a lot of the informal channels, as we say. You know, since we focus a lot on the, this, every time we meet, you know, a lot of these stories, stories will be shared, uh, in different meetings. And, you know, [00:32:45] we will, you know, every time we lift, every or every time we gather a big employee group, et cetera, we will always share a lot of these type of stories to inspire others and to, to acknowledge the great effort.

Sondre: And then of course, we have, uh, we have, uh. Uh, digital, uh, [00:33:00] workplace where everyone, uh, is quite active. Uh, and we, uh, use a lot of the time to share stories here. And then we have, you know, uh, as a big part, ev all, all the marketing we do is basically digital. And, uh, we do very little, uh, [00:33:15] offline. And, and, and then, you know.

Sondre: Having member stories, sharing, you know, uh, how important being a member at the lake resources for them and, you know, sharing stories about, you know, this unique journey with this GX instructor or with [00:33:30] this personal trainer, et cetera, is also a big part of our digital communication.

Josua: Yeah. I, I want talk about one thing that’s obviously had a huge impact on your business, which was lockdowns.

Josua: So, um, can you kind [00:33:45] of. Briefly kind of walk through, what was that like? Um, having to shut down, having shut down the gyms, and what were some of the key critical decisions that UNT made that allowed you to navigate that and, and get through the other side? [00:34:00]

Sondre: Oh, it was, uh, it was actually, uh, it’s interesting because now today it’s the 14th of March.

Sondre: Uh, so it’s two days ago on the day, it was five years since we closed all our gyms. So the 12th of March at 6:00 [00:34:15] AM in the morning, uh, we took the decision to close all our gyms. Um, we did not have a clue then that, you know, the society would also close down, uh, over the next coming days. So we took that [00:34:30] decision because during the days before we, we have had seen a lot of covid in our clubs.

Sondre: Um. At least we had gotten an indication of it. And the thing is, if it just take a step back, we, we. We thought we [00:34:45] were quite well prepared actually with Covid because when we started to, in February and January to hear about, you know, these stories and you know, if you, if you turn ahead back five years, you know, you remember in February, 2020 you had these maps of Europe with these red [00:35:00] countries, uh, and Scania was green, uh, but they had these red countries, especially Austria, et cetera, and the Alps skiing and the Alps, et cetera.

Sondre: And actually. Several weeks before hospitals in Norway had the same rule. We had the [00:35:15] rule that if we had employees who have been visiting those countries, they had to stay outta work for two weeks when they came home. Before coming to work. So we felt that, you know, we had taken a lot of, uh, actions and procedures to be well prepared, but the, [00:35:30] the, the 11th of March, uh, we got a lot of, uh, phone calls from, you know, uh, from, uh, from, uh, municipalities, doctors, et cetera, saying that, you know, we have people with covid in our, uh, in our, uh, offices now, [00:35:45] and they’ve been in your gym.

Sondre: So, you know, you should probably do something, et cetera. And we got a lot of these stories and we, we just took the decision 12th of March in the morning that, you know, it’s not safe for us. We, we don’t feel it’s safe for us to welcome the [00:36:00] members and all our employees to work, so we cannot keep the clubs open.

Sondre: But it was a, it was a very difficult decision because it’s, you know, it was. It was basically three years, uh, or two, [00:36:15] two years with a lot of, uh, challenges. Uh, revenues disappeared when, you know, when the clubs are closed. Uh, you, you don’t have revenues, but you have a lot of the costs. You still have to pay, you know, some of the employees salary.

Sondre: You, you have to pay all [00:36:30] the house rent, you have to pay all the digital licenses. So most of our cost base was just running, but the revenues disappeared. So it was, uh, extremely challenging for us as a company. Uh, we took some tough decisions to, [00:36:45] what was important was to reduce, so to say, what we call the cash burn.

Sondre: Um, we temporarily laid off a lot of employees. Uh, luckily, uh, most of them stayed with us and came back When we opened again, uh, we communicated very [00:37:00] closely. We decided to, you know. We decided not to shut down communication to members, uh, and employees. A lot of, uh, players in the industry just, you know, they closed the gym and said that, you know, let’s not communicate to our members because, uh, if we remind [00:37:15] them that we are closed, they will leave.

Sondre: Uh, we, we took a totally different strategy. We said, you know. Even though our fiscal gyms are closed, let’s try to do whatever we can for our members so they can stay active. So, you know, the day after we closed our gyms, we had a digital [00:37:30] service up and running with live group training classes you could do from your, uh, home, uh, on the phone with your, uh, with your known instructor.

Sondre: Um, so we did a lot of things and communicated a lot with members, which was very successful because we lost fewer members during [00:37:45] covid than many others. So when we reopened again, uh, luckily, you know, our fantastic club managers, they stayed with us. We didn’t lose a single one nearly I. So, you know, we had our, our fantastic employees and I’m so grateful for [00:38:00] that.

Sondre: They stayed with us. And, and so when we opened the gyms again, we were ready and, and, uh, the, the journey since then is known, but of course, the. Opening, uh, year was tough because of, you know, uh, we, we opened the [00:38:15] gyms just before Putin, uh, invaded Ukraine. Uh, and, uh, and you got the inflationary, uh, society and, uh, and the negative consumer sentiment and electricity, electricity prices hiked, et cetera.

Sondre: So financially it was a bit [00:38:30] stressful the first year after opening. But operationally it was great. People came back, uh, and we launched a lot of new products that was well received, and, uh, and then it’s been, especially the last two years has been, you know, good, good, good [00:38:45] growth journey since then. But, but Covid was, uh, it was tough.

Sondre: We, we survived due to big bank loans, uh, from our banks, uh, which paid our, uh, which paid, uh, and we paid all the bills. We paid all the house [00:39:00] rents and everything. So, uh, and actually it’s first now several years later that we have repaid the most of the covid debt to the banks.

Josua: It must be so nice being kind of in a [00:39:15] more normal operating environment now and seeing the growth in their profitability return, being able to deal leverage and,

Sondre: yep.

Josua: And I think it’s interesting, just one example you mentioned there about some gems choosing not to communicate to customers are fear that [00:39:30] they’re going to leave. Um, it just kind of shows that even in times of huge uncertainty and crisis, you can make value-based decisions that are kind of in line with not just your strategy, maybe just in more in line with your values, and Sure.

Josua: [00:39:45] If you, if you do that, and maybe also speaking to kind of you’ve, you’ve built that foundation, that relationship with your employees so that even though there’s this, this crisis and have to be temporarily laid off, once you’re outta crisis, you can get back to up to speed. [00:40:00] Much quicker. Like it didn’t, it paused you, it slowed you down as a company.

Josua: It did not ultimately kind of, it, it seems like it didn’t really do any like lasting damage to you as a company. And that kinda speaks to how prepared maybe your organization was. No,

Sondre: but [00:40:15] it was, uh, I think we have never seen. Uh, to be honest, I don’t think we’ve ever seen so much, uh, engagement and, uh, and, you know, heart emojis and love among our [00:40:30] employee groups than during, uh, during the lockdown.

Sondre: Uh, and they were so, you know, most, most of our 10,000 employees, they work in subs and Alexia because they have a passion in life. Of keeping, [00:40:45] getting people active. They are that, you know, that’s the passion. That’s, that’s why they work in science. Uh, and, and then to, you know, during Covid for us as a company, not to be able to deliver our products, not to be able to, you know, create [00:41:00] the energy and to, to, to get people active and to, you know, we have so many people working out with us when, you know, as I said, you know, this is their main social arena.

Sondre: It’s, it’s, it’s a big part of p many members life. Stay, [00:41:15] uh, with us. So to close the clubs and, you know, to hear all those stories about, you know, how this had dramatic negative consequences in people’s life. It was, it was horrible. So, no, it’s, uh, I’m happy. It’s, uh, several, [00:41:30] uh, it’s, it’s in the past. And then we hope, hope that, you know, even though the world is more uncertain now than, than in a long time, hopefully we will not have a new pandemic.

Josua: Yeah, hopefully, hopefully, hopefully. Um, [00:41:45] is there anything from that period, I mean, it was huge, unforeseen crisis. Um, any kind of lessons that you took away that’s kind of maybe changed how you think about business in, in general that’s not necessarily tied just to the, that kind of [00:42:00] extreme specific environment?

Sondre: Yes, a lot. Uh, I, I think, you know, I think three areas are most important. I think, you know what, you just lifted that, you know, having. Having a strong culture and a value-based company is so [00:42:15] important when crisis hits, no matter what type of crisis it is, because you have the dedication and engagement and loyalty from a big, uh, employee group, uh, which is the most important thing you can have.

Sondre: And then secondly, that, you know. You have [00:42:30] to be quite structured and disciplined and, and, you know, uh, you have to be well prepared for, uh, different events. And I think in all the operational routines we managed to get in place during Covid was, uh, great, but it [00:42:45] took some time because we were not well enough prepared in terms of having, you know, increased, uh, cleaning routines and all these, uh, all these things.

Sondre: So to have, you know, clear procedures and operational standards are super important. And then lastly, I think, you know what this, [00:43:00] and we’ve been working quite a lot with that, uh, since, since Covid Covid, because, you know, we were in all the Nordic countries, we were put in the same category as nightclubs and bars even, you know, in, in, in, [00:43:15] in, in, in all the Nordic Capital Cities bars.

Sondre: We’re allowed to open before gyms. That’s crazy. Uh, you know, poli pol politicians, you know, it was crazy because gyms had this crazy view in society and, [00:43:30] uh, among a lot of politicians that, you know, this is a place for young guys that just want to build big bodies. They had no clue about how. Important we are as a part of society.

Sondre: You know, most of our members are female members. We [00:43:45] have a lot of seniors. We have a lot of young people. The, the, the, so we felt that, you know, there was a very low level of understanding our contribution to society and our contribution to the public health and how important we are [00:44:00] as a public health contributor.

Sondre: So that, that has been a lot of focus since Covid to make sure that, you know. If ever something’s happened again, if we can operate our business safe and with routines that make sure that it’s safe to stay with us, we should [00:44:15] stay open because we’re such an important factory in people lives. So, uh, yeah, hopeful.

Sondre: You know, hopefully we have done a lot of work now, so, uh, if a new pandemic hits, we will not be viewed as, uh, you know, as less [00:44:30] important to society as nightclubs.

Josua: No, that’s, I completely agree. I think that’s, that’s crazy. That lack of understanding the physical and the social, uh, the mental aspect, the health aspect that comes from that.

Josua: So I totally, totally agree. Um, we’re, we’re running outta [00:44:45] time here, unfortunately, but kind of one, one last question for you, and maybe we’ve already already touched upon this, but what, is there anything that you’re kind of like paying a special, uh, in interest or attention to right now in the, in the gym or fitness space?

Josua: Any [00:45:00] kind of big trends and, and anything that you’re especially excited about?

Sondre: Yeah, I think, you know, that’s, uh. When, when, when you’re working in a company where you love the product yourself and use the product, uh, yourself, like [00:45:15] most of our employees are doing, we try to say to ourselves that, you know, our decisions should be driven by data and facts and not our own personal preferences of what we like to do.

Sondre: Uh, and that’s so difficult. You know, it’s always easy to [00:45:30] use examples based on their own experience, but I think, you know, um. If we, you know, it is just two things. Uh, if, if, if we manage to [00:45:45] have, you know, the best product offering, if we manage to make sure that, you know, all the product launches we are doing are successful and that, you know, we really have the product offering that people want, uh, if we manage to do that [00:46:00] and, uh, and be on top of trends, et cetera, uh, as we are currently.

Sondre: Then combined with what we talked a lot about now during the last, uh, 45 minutes around, you know, having a value driven organization with a strong culture, if we manage to do [00:46:15] those two things, to have, you know, the product people want and deliver them with passion, you know, we can do whatever we want. Uh, so I, I think that’s, that’s the most important part.

Sondre: And then fitness trends changes, and, you know, new concepts are coming. And now, [00:46:30] actually in two days, no, tomorrow, on Saturday, we are launching, uh. Reformer, uh, studios in Oslo and Stockholm, which is, you know, a crazy trend. And, you know, the classes are super popular and there will always be these new concepts and we should be on top of it.

Sondre: But if we continue to stay [00:46:45] on top of it and then have a value driven organization, I think, you know, we can ac we can accomplish a lot.

Josua: I think that’s a perfect way to summarize kind of our conversation. A really good takeaway. Um, Sora, thank you so much for taking time to talk to me. Um, it’s [00:47:00] been, it’s been a pleasure.

Josua: Uh. Because I’m a, I’m a big fan of what you and the team are doing, and to everyone who’s listening, who’s not, if they’re an active gym member, go sign up. Preferably, as Alex said, Jim, um, your body’s gonna thank you. Your mind’s gonna thank you. So it’s a great, [00:47:15] great kind of contribution that you’re doing to society.

Josua: So, um, wish you and team all the best of luck and like I said, thank you so much for taking the time to speak. Thank you.