Polar CMO Anssi Mäkelä on their approach to branding and marketing

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Anssi Mäkelä on their approach to branding and marketing – Youtube transcript

Today’s guest is Anssi Mäkelä, the chief marketing officer at Polar Polar is a finnished brand known around the world for its Cutting Edge heart rate heart rate tracking capabilities that include watches sensors and services welcome to show on hey thanks for having me exciting yes indeed actually this is my first podcast that I ever done so all right welcome thank you it’s going to be I’m sure it’s going to be a great one I’m pretty sure so polar The traditional agency model is dead is a very exciting brand so we definitely want to talk about that but but first to kind of go into something that we’ve been talking about a little bit off air which is this um should we call traditional agency model and how agencies work with clients you’ve had a a lot of experience in your previous jobs and about seeing how big brands are using these kind of agencies and and you’ve seen some limitations with that so I’d be curious to kind of hear about your thoughts on the limitations of well first of all if you could describe the model the limitations with it and then talk about what you’ve done at polar which is uh kind of implementing a new um kind of hybrid hybrid model yeah absolutely I mean over the years um working with many big and small agencies um The Challenge always comes from from I’m not saying it’s necessarily a challenge but but you have to always brief the agency right so you brief the agency and then they are going to go into their room and and discuss and they have the strategies the creative director and and who else is is is basically sitting in the room and thinking about how to respond to that that brief right and the client is not involved at all and and usually then don’t come back to the point that they’re going to come with their presentation or pitch or or whatnot to show like this is our big idea this is the concept that we’ve been thinking to solve your business challenges or problems and but the client is not in the room right so it’s not a collaborative model at all um and Al it comes down to also the fact that uh after everything is signed off great you know this is the concept that we want to move forward with and hoping that it actually answers the the problem um that you’re you’re trying to solve it comes down to the scope of work and when it comes down to the scope of work it’s always like okay you’re going to get this this this and this and that right and then the project starts moving forward and you start actually producing creating all the all the content and assets and and strategies and and so on then something comes up right and another idea and another Direction then the agency is not willing to make those changes or adapt the concept because of that would mean extra work and then that basically means that they’re going to come back to you and say okay yeah great we can do that but it’s going to cost you this much so in terms of um the sort of what I keep on saying is this traditional agency models are dead uh is that they need to evolve to something else and I think that trend is just going to be increasing over the years and moving forward I don’t believe that that this is really sustainable in the long run but also I think it also requires a lot from the client side it doesn’t always mean that there’s a lot of companies that are able to do what we’re doing at the moment it requires also that you have the right kind of people and talent in house to some extent in in order to actually execute on on what I think is of this hybrid model that I I’m I’m I’m talking about and you mentioned you have to kind of Building in-house competency and why awards don’t matter build that in-house team and you started doing that when you kind of started at polar but I’d be curious to know because I feel like one thing that is keeping companies back is this lack of confidence right the agencies are the big creative Geniuses they work with so many Brands they have the big ideas and we like the client side the people working at the client side are just uh lowly workers who just we don’t really know how the big world works ET so on so how did you have that confidence to say that no actually we know we can do this maybe not completely ourselves but a large part of it we can do ourselves yeah it also relates back to understanding the business understanding the company what it actually does and and yeah you know obviously you need some creative people that has some ideas and can execute right so a lot of the times like you said it’s on the agency side um but having those talent in house is is is sort of important and you never get a an a client director or strategist or or the creative director on the agency side to fully understand the business landscape and and where the company is heading and the the sort of Future Future Vision it they never like when you create the brief and you try to give as much as insights and and and stats and whatnot so they can build their Concepts they will never ever understand the company inside out they don’t understand the product like you have so limited time of explaining the products the campaigns the strategies the and so on so NE will have that sort of inhouse information so absolutely you need inhouse you need people that are creative I I consider myself I get excited about new ideas and Concepts and and and obviously trying to build the team around that sort of same mentality that everybody who has an idea can bring it up and and it basically start building from there but then of course you need sort of uh also on the the agency side you need people to support that then so that’s where it comes really handy the some some would may maybe argue that you know once you’re in house you keep on doing the same thing over and over again that’s always the challenge so you have to be aware of that but also at the same time you need sort of somebody coming outside a little bit poke you to be that having that sort of creativity creativ flowing so I think yeah I mean yeah you’re right it’s uh it’s not as easy as it’s it said but I think we’ve done significant improvements into that and it’s a it’s a constant uh sort of uh Improvement of the process yeah I think I I I respect that because I think it takes a lot more guts to um to bring it all in house because then you are accountable I think there’s for Bri your CMO there’s always a t or temptation to just be like I’m just going to hire this award-winning agency yeah and I’ll just kind of like wash my you know hands Awards my favorite topic that’s actually nice you you brought it up I was actually thinking about it yesterday and and why are sorry this is so funny right so the awards what why would why does it matter so I I always categorized agencies into two different categories one being the ones that actually wants to do a good job for the client the other ones are the ones who want to make money why these great Awards and you know can lions or Webby Awards or whatever right like why does it matter to the client what why does it matter isn’t that just like uh boosting the ego for the agency so they can sell their services to other look at these awards that we won I mean that’s sort of a um kind of a funny funny uh topic that I always wonder it’s like why why this matter yeah it doesn’t matter to the client it’s like end of today we look at how how well how well we are selling the products or how well the campaigns are successful and so forth that’s uh you know what matters end of the day yeah but do you find that that’s actually um kind of the minority um CMOS or or brand managers who actually are mostly focused on the business and the sales of the product as opposed to the creativity of the campaigns the all the kind of brand metrics do you find that’s actually a rarity like you are in the minority yeah good question I I don’t know about what others but obviously you know uh from our point of view we look at U we look at a lot of different metrics maybe too much some of them are for sure like vanity metrics and so on but they’re good indications to to some extent um but yeah I mean I might be in a minority uh maybe maybe you’re right yeah it’s it’s that’s stu um you How they produce creatives mentioned um that at at polar you built this um kind of the h model and a part of that is having Freelancers or network of Freelancers who are specialized in specific whether it’s 3D modeling or like some something else so and that allows you to very you know agility and cost- Effectiveness when it comes to producing assets can you talk about the role of having that you know ability to create a lot of assets quickly um in in in your success when it comes to marketing again just to preface because I feel like um there’s still a well not still but there’s a there’s there are people who who feel that you know what you need is the big idea the big campaign and would you agree with that or do you think that yeah what what’s the role of volume yeah I mean volume is important uh I’m not saying that you need to like quantity over quality but I mean uh I sort of they go hand inand um um yeah I mean of course the volume in order to do that and again going back a bit to the problem with working with the agencies where you’re limmited to to the next amount of of assets and then you’re basically basically married to that right so the way that we do things is is um we obviously look at we we’re not limited by um by the number of assets uh we’re not limited by the type of talent that we’re tied into some production company or uh uh some sort of um CGI or 3D guy or whatever um what we do is is we once we create a concept right we know uh you still need some sort of concept idea right and that’s always tailored to towards the product and the the segment and the target audience and so on and then you start to sort of formalize in terms of you know what is the narrative how you break it down what is the messaging you create a clear sort of framework for that and once you have that framework in place then you understand okay I need to produce this and this and that right so what we trying to do is that we frame the narrative the story the storyline the messaging and everything and I don’t believe it’s like one message that is like you have that big you know one tagline so to say right so um people don’t it’s like one size doesn’t fit all so one message might resonate with you but it doesn’t resonate with me so you have to be able to sort of tailor the message into different types of audiences so that also means that once you sort of tailor your message in to the different audiences that also means that you need more assets so you can’t just go with one single tagline approach then and hope that everybody will will love it right so you you have to find these ways of talking about the the campaigns or the products and so on or even the brand right so you have to find the audience the the messages the creatives the formats that will actually work for that audience and with this model that we have now is that every time we get a get into a new project we create that framework work that we know exactly what we want to say and then we’re start looking at okay who do we need okay do we need a photographer do we need a filmmaker do we need a CGI guy and we might go to uh through our partner or ourselves we might do research ourselves we look at beans it’s a great pool of talented people so we’re not tied into agencies let’s say if you look at this from a traditional agency they have their network of production companies and they do these massive Productions right and you you BAS basically pay a premium for them to in order to facilitate that production so we cut that out and we go straight to the source so we find the talent ourselves and then we just contact them and say hey you know what would be cool to do this thing with you and that’s why this is this is exactly the way that we for example found a brilliant CGI or 3D guy that is basically working through the agency but working for us uh again migrated or integrated into our processes and and and you get the fraction of the price you don’t pay the finished premium I’m sorry to say but you know the price matters so you find talented people that are super talented they might be all over all over the place so to say it doesn’t matter where you live if you’re talented and you know what you’re doing you know you might be working with us yeah so I think that’s really interesting because it’s not like you cut out the agencies or or whatever freelancer and brought everything in house but You’ made sure that you’re not reliant on a single source to give you kind of you actually have cont direct contact with everyone that you need to work with yeah no not directly it depends on the case by case really like sometimes we work with directly with some photographers for example it really it’s a case by case but most of the time we go through through the agency because it’s it’s just much much easier that way and they are obviously well connected and they know uh they well they do the same research look at beans or or whatnot or know somebody else that is specialized on some certain area so yeah we don’t mind where you’re from as long as you’re Superstar yeah that’s a good that’s a good approach to have especially considering that you are a global brand and so it’s it’s not a yeah you have to you have to look look everywhere for the best talent um you Polar’s messaging and how it’s changed mentioned messaging polar was historically a very engineering driven company in terms of both product development but also brand and messaging and in the last couple of years you made this pivot um in your messaging to be much more consumer oriented and yeah well could you talk about that like what was the insight and what’s been the process of changing so obviously working working working in different companies and and and sort of looking at the way that you present and tell the story about a product um when I joined around three years ago uh I started looking at you know I looked after the website from a let’s say from a design and UI and ux point of view and I look at the messaging uh sort of Frameworks that we have and I I sort of quickly noticed and that the the way way that the products are presented I mean the factually yes they’re correct and but it’s very sort of I mean mean might be a bit of this sort of Finnish culture thing as as well but very sort of um hard to understand uh so one of the things that I really wanted to quickly move into fixing is looking at the way that we talk about the products and and talking about the products in a way that I always say like a child can understand so that was a sort of a massive leap in in forward trying to first of all having that tality house was fundamental right so making sure that we have a person who who gets the products can translate that let’s say engineer text into something that everybody can understand so we have invested a lot of lot into the the S of Storytelling and naration so that that these the when we talk about very technical things it’s super easy then to understand so that that was kind of a a massive lead forward and and I’m not saying that we’re perfect by no means but I think we have made a massive steps forward in terms of creating that content especially for the website even for the ads and everything so that they are easy to approach and easy to understand because the end of the day that’s ammunation for for us in terms of generating word of MTH and get people talking about it if you know and can explain the product to your friend isn’t that easier then you’re like I’m not sure how do I explain what the benefits are yeah so super important yeah so so what would you say is the big picture kind of narrative about polar and what you’re trying to do um and how you kind of how does that differ from a whoop or an aura or someone someone else oh wow um really don’t I mean we Benchmark everyone in terms of what what they’re doing um but yeah I mean we’re trying to focus on our thing and the way that we want to do things instead of just looking at what everybody else is doing I think that’s also important like not like I don’t want to waste too much time on sort of looking at what the competitors and they’re messaging and trying to sort of learn something uh learn something from there but I mean um yeah I mean in generally speaking I think it’s fundamental that again the way that you talk about the product is very clear uh it needs to be uh approachable it needs to be emotional it needs to be also rational right so you have to create uh things that has so sort of those both aspects so I think that’s sort of where the focus has been not directly answering sort of you know uh what you’re asking here but I think you know that’s the way that we approach it got it and did you go into because you Speaking to different audiences mentioned you have to have different messages to different segments or or audiences did you go into that um did you kind of do that exercise for being like no these are types of users that we’re going to go after or or is that more so are you more so taking a broad approach um and how do you it’s sort of a case by case product by product I mean depends on um the product and the segment and and and I think you sort of said um we’re walking in here like you know the you know what what is your sort of you know some competitors are doing this and that but I said you know uh we’re coming from a very sort of sports oriented world and that’s been our sort of uh the main priority and I think that’s something that we’re going to keep on doing but of course you have a variety of different YP of people in different segments you know you have the super athletes to going into let’s say these sort of uh techy uh techie sports fanatics uh so to say and then you start going lower and lower in terms of the different segments in terms of just like somebody who wants to be active of course you have to you have to sort of tailor your message towards those audiences but again it’s tied into the product where the product is sort of segmented or where it stands in terms of the segmentation and then you start to tailor the message so it resonates but then when you look at that from a broader point of view let’s say from a let’s say uh from the side point of view then that needs to be much broader right so you have to be able to educate people in terms of what the right products are for them so you have to sort of look that but especially from a let’s say from a product campaign point of view that’s very much tailored to that specific audience and the message messaging needs to resonate to that audience but then again on the site it’s more broader as such so we look at the messaging there as much much wider yeah um question about branding and how you think about the brand you’re I’m Building a competitive brand on a worldwide stage guessing selling all over the world and uh in Finland you know it’s a bit easier fin fin sow Paul we trust them but um when you think about how do you think about establishing The credibility because ultimately people have to trust that they’re spending money on this device that it will give them Superior something performance however you want to Define that whether it’s accuracy or or some kind of data so how do you think about establishing that credibility so that customers will pay for a PO device over some compe somebody else I always love uh quoting Simon zinic on this one you start with the why right so uh over the couple of last year we have also been defining a bit of sort of crystallizing the sort of brand um sort of uh vision mission and and and also the why we do what we do I think that’s sort of U Is Fundamental to have very precise then that should resonate to the audience obviously it’s not necessarily something like a campaign that you you talk about but it’s all about how that then uh resonates throughout the different campaigns and activations you do so that’s sort of the the heart that is always there so we have uh invested a lot of our time to sort of crystallizing crystallizing that so so I think that’s sort of a one of the main things that that we’ve been gradually now rolling out uh so that we we have that reason to believe into that brand and that’s something that we’ve been sort of uh yeah doing over there couple of let’s say last year or so yeah so I mean that fundamentally for me is is the the one that builds the brand love and and sort of uh the reason to believe and why would you choose po or somebody else um if you have a clear clear sort of idea of that so got it uh and what do you Brand ambassadors and influencers what what role given the sports background of the of the brand what role do you think uh whether it’s partnership with athletes or or influencers or sponsorships of you know whatever it’s competitions or or leagues like what role do you think those kind of tactics as opposed to like the just the yeah just like building that connection with established authori in in in your kind of Realm how do you think about that versus just like communicating about the product and and and your your mission yeah I mean totally makes sense um yeah we work with with a athletes and ambassadors and influencers and and creators I think those are I mean if you look at the media landscape right now um how do you get in front of the people uh it’s quite fascinating in terms of like you have three seconds right you have three seconds to capture the audience so how do you do that can you do that as a brand or you need somebody else to talk about you I’m not a big believer of just like logo placements and so on but you know going from a sort of a value creation and added value point of view how do you get somebody on board regardless of the athlete or or influencer that we can actually bring something to that how can we help that person how we can improve that person’s you know well-being or or um life or or uh performance I mean I think that’s where it gets interesting and and we we have sort of the science to prove that I think that sort of a value creation is is fundamental there um but yeah I mean we work with different athletes uh and and influencers and so and I think that’s like I said I think it’s so hard for the brand uh to tell the story than getting somebody else to tell your story and that’s why I think that sort of a is an interesting venue uh that we are sort of looking into um more and more and how we can do that and build sort of the engine uh behind that I think that’s kind of an interesting area um like I said we we do our social communication we do our our stuff right but then how that gets captured it’s so much harder than getting somebody else to talk about you so but again it needs to sort of add value got it but you’re always exactly so you’re always it’s not just about logo placement getting someone to show up with a polar it’s always focused on what the product does for them to help them achieve whatever absolutely and and I I think those those type of Partnerships are um are important that it’s not like just the logo placement or it needs to somehow we need to be aligned with our sort of Ambitions both ends right so that it actually brings brings something else than just a l go and and that’s it right so when we’re on Leveraging their Finnish heritage the topic of brand um how do you incorporate and think about your finnished heritage because obviously Finland has some reputation around the world um and you know beautiful nature very honest people hardworking I’m I’m just I mean I’m speculating I think this is how the world thinks about us so how do you think about that because I I I mean this is a kind of a a question that all finish Brands and Swedish Brands too we have a lot of Swedish listeners think about how should they I hope they’re think about it how should they use that Heritage when they’re trying to think internationally like how do you think about that should have been thinking about that a bit of the the last days because I knew knew you going to be be asking this um um you know if we look at if we let’s let’s let’s let’s pretend for a second if we would be all about the Finland and the Finnish nature and all that it wouldn’t necessarily resonate in Brazil or some some other countries they’re like I don’t get that at all um but that being said it doesn’t mean that we don’t do that we do a lot of we want to build on that sort of I think you brought a few nice keywords you know trust the uh trust is important I think the in generally speaking the The Finnish brands are very trusted uh and also um very practically speaking how we’re bringing that to to life is also from a visual point of view but we don’t necessarily look at that from a let’s say from a only from a Finland point of view but more from the nordics uh nordic’s point of view and trying to bring that sort of aspiration and inspiration of our environment and our playgrounds here and I think you will start see more and more that from us from a let’s say from a visual standpoint but absolutely the herit is the where we’re coming from as a brand it’s it’s a big story it’s it’s a fascinating fascinating story uh all by itself and and I think we we want to build on that uh built on that trust uh built on that accuracy built on that it’s all part of our communication but I don’t think necessarily that if we would be just entirely focusing that it it would resonate sort of around the world but it needs to be aspirational and inspirational that’s interesting um you mentioned story and and and previously you talked about narrative and so I want The power of narratives to go back to that because I I I personally find that really interesting and I I’m a big believer in the power of narrative like if you can craft a really good narrative then it makes helps kind of put everything into perspective and so did I understand correctly that when you’re kind of thinking about let’s say you’re launching a new product um the first thing you will do is kind of create a narrative about okay what is this product who is it for what does it do and then from that you can draw you know you’ll figure out okay we need these assets or we need to work with this person does that is that kind of describe your process or how what role does n Play abely yeah absolutely so you know you you can think of this as uh you know the MS so on sort of backboards thinking of like you know creating the press release and the FAQs and so on right s can you can you explain that because I don’t think people are familiar with the Amazon yeah the process so so basically Amazon has been working on sort of this it’s called backwards thinking and there’s a full book about that so please feel free to to find that from Google or Amazon um basically the S like let’s put it into very plain English is basically you start the project on writing a press release that’s the simplest way of doing it so how you imagine sort of uh bringing this product to life and how you would launch it and you basically start from that but we don’t just do that that’s one great aspect to to kick it all but it’s not just that I think what you need to do and what we’re doing sort of is building that framework so we we have like this massive Workshop where we invite everybody to join and then we start looking at you know the the insights the data uh this audience the the goals and everything and it’s in one big canvas and when start to sort of narrow down true conversation you know what is important for this product asking really hard questions and then basically that translates into a wireframe or a structure of information how you want to talk about this product and throughout that sort of wireframe then that becomes more Visual and more Visual and more Visual and then you start to have some sort of sketches in terms of how that should be looking like from a visual standpoint the key messages the punch lines the the segments the sort of everything is is in that framework and then it’s much easier to take that sort of press release faq’s the framework and then you start looking at okay what do we need to do we need a film do we need an animation do we need pictures what kind of pictures we need what kind of color world it is what’s the color palette and everything is being defined throughout that Pro and then then you basically after that you’re like all right this is great we love it we’re going to go with this and then you start moving into production and and finding the talent to do the different things so that’s uh that’s basically how How We Roll okay and in terms of agility you know let’s say someone comes up uh someone on your team comes up with this many times many times many times throughout the process so we might change the direction 50 times which is great right because sometimes it’s like once you start working on and and structuring that an idea comes like oh you know can I switch uh it’s like oh man that’s a great idea we should look into that and and something else might come out from that and that that really is the agility that wouldn’t work with the traditional agency model because we’re all working together and and when that idea comes it’s like I every time I get super excited when there’s a new direction or an idea it’s like okay let’s look into that and let’s start looking at if we can actually execute on that so yeah absolutely that sort of creative environment is is fundamental to make this work and have that agility and option to go ahead on on something that you saw oh my that might be super cool so absolutely this this sort of framework really helps on on that sort of coming up with new ideas and Concepts on on the go and maybe even last minute we might have another direction that we we will look into if we can actually execute on that sometimes I’m the party pooper so I’m like you know time is clicking sorry we don’t have time to do that like great idea let’s save that for the next one so sometimes on the party yeah some well you know you can do everything but it sounds like you have a really um there’s a there’s a great creative freedom um and which I think is absolutely great one thing that Tactics for grabbing attention in a noisy world I’d love to ask about just because it it’s it’s it’s been on my mind um I I saw on Twitter this I don’t know if you’ve seen it but in Las Vegas they have this new Arena the globe it’s like a big giant ball have you seen it no um it’s full with cameras both inside and outside so you can buy you can place actual like um sorry advertising the entire arena is is is can be turned into a display and U I think it cost like something like $600,000 or something to run for a week or maybe was a day but um that just got me thinking like because you mentioned that to in today’s day and age it’s really hard to reach people even if you have a great product you have a great message everything is kind you got your ducks in a in a row it’s still so hard because people are busy and ultimately they don’t really care so the question you have three seconds three seconds which is you know it’s not a lot of time um so how do you think about or are you thinking about like what are some creative interesting different ways to reach people like are you thinking along those terms not just about what’s the content what’s the narrative but also what’s the Channel what’s the mechanism through which we get people like are you are you thinking about any anything like that and are you seeing anything kind of interesting um in terms of innovative say well if we want to go into Innovative and and sort of where the world is heading is is sort of generative Ai and and what AI is bringing I think that’s as as as a venue is quite an interesting aspect um but in terms of U maximizing reach and doing like let’s say like Super Bowl obviously that’s a that’s a great example of if you want to reach a lot of people but then whether that then converts or whatnot builds the brand share voice yeah maybe um but yeah it’s not easy it’s a noisy world right so you have to be clever in terms of where you invest your money so that it it adds either you know the brand recognition or or brings you revenue or whatnot you know obviously these are important things but yeah it’s not an easy game I think the way that we approach it is is obviously we look at the funnel we look at the the upper part it’s all about sort of the emotional attracting the person to be interested in the brand and try start sort of driving that person into into your venues and your side and so on and then how do you you go into that rational aspect and rationalizing the reason to purchase something and then you sort of move into the Loyalty aspects and then you start looking at the emotions again how you recommend the product to another person right so we try to look at the channels from from that point of view and the different tactics um from a sort of a reach point of view I think we have invested over the years quite a lot and we’ve been I’m not saying super successful but we are successful in terms of our blog for example um we have an authority there we have an authority to talk about certain topics and aspects right so we are investing a lot in our time and efforts into to getting that organic traffic and and it’s not just you know on on searching for the products but searching for the brand and topics that people are interesting actually a great example which we did during the co um was that we we got an idea right so it’s like okay so people are now you know being sick and Co and whatnot right so um we’re like okay let’s see like people are probably thinking about how they can actually start training again after after Co so made an article on like you know postco exercise tips and we gave that sort of piece of information and that’s where you know it gets interesting is like when people are searching for that and guess what you know we rank pretty well we have the authority on this topic like this and so I mean these are sort of more more the tactics that we are we’re looking at um and so those are sort of a fascinating fascinating um areas uh but then again I think uh what we sort of earlier talk about sort of influencers and and I’m not even talking about influencers you know those who are like here’s the product and then you’re like look at this from Polar yeah great that’s fine but then it’s more about how do you get people to talk about the benefits uh and I think that sort of a Creator idea that you know you have great filmmakers you have great photographers you have all these different types of uh talent that somebody might be doing some stupid video I’m not actually saying stupid videos but doing you know behind the scenes how to make a beautiful product photography for example it just can be a a social content creator so how do you partner with people like that in order to create some interesting pieces of content because end of the day it’s all about entertainment right so and as a brand it’s so hard to do that yourself you have to look into other other sort of talented people that are doing that as their business now so how do you scale that that’s where I think it’s kind of an interesting area of looking into how do you scale something like that so it’s not enough that you do just like you know one hit wonder it doesn’t work like that so how do you do that in a larger scale and get a lot of talented people to do things for you that’s where where I’m fascinated and interested in sort of uh looking into h no I think there’s a lot of opportunities there but it needs to be you can do it like you said if you can do it quite um in a crass very crudee way we just let’s just get the product out and let’s look at the Impressions it gets and that’s not necessarily how you build the brand right no absolutely not so I we’re pretty much unfortunately all uh out of time but um I’d be curious to learn for the people such as myself who don’t have Why buy Polar? a polar watch or product yet is there anything in your product portfolio that you recommend as like a oh little advertisement in the advertisement you know what um so I’ve been sort of using this and and W which is uh always you know where people are like bipolar right um that’s a a common question and and then I answer answer that in a way that um you know it’s so easy let’s say easy to create a product that captures data it’s a sensor right so it captures your movement it captures everything it captures heart rate but then when you get that data it’s like how do you translate that into something meaningful and that’s super hard so I think you know we have invested as a company over the years so much into the sort of Science and the research and understanding how the human body works is that we we actually has done more studies and research than any of the other companies all combined together so that’s where it gets interesting if you if you’re curious about translating that data into something meaningful for you follow my be a good choice for you so I mean we we are very sort of um very proud very very sort of fixated about the accuracy and the data and translating that into something personalized and meaningful to individuals I mean we do have different product segments of course like for the sports the the ones that who wants to train and improve their their their overall sort of performance and then Ed that get into a lower tier in a sense of of just somebody who wants to be active I think we offer a lot of great capabilities in terms of sort of the variety of the different segments and audiences so I mean it really depends on who you are and what you want to do right so if you’re an outdoor Enthusiast you know you want some capabilities according to that or you’re just uh you know doing marathons we have products for that I mean really depends on on what you want to do but yeah I think in generally speaking it’s all comes down into translating that data into something meaningful is super fundamental uh I’ve been probably saying fundamental too many times but uh yeah I think it’s important that the data that you look at the numbers and the figures and charts yeah great but making sure that that’s accurate I think that sort of differentiates us a little bit from from the other other other competitors I think that’s a really compelling pitch actually I need to go I need to go and look at at the study the product portfolio bit more closely um on it’s been a pleasure thank you so much for coming on thanks for having me for people who want to follow you um obviously we’ll link to Paul and your website but for people who want to follow you personally and are you on active on LinkedIn is that LinkedIn you can find me on LinkedIn or or Instagram LinkedIn or Instagram okay we’ll put uh we’ll put both of the links in show notes once again thank you so much thanks a lot thank you for listening you can find all episodes of the growth pod on Spotify YouTube and apple podcasts [Music]